Visual Studio 11 Express on Windows 7 and the ability to write non Metro C++ applications in it.
With the release of Visual Studio 11 Beta there are currently two versions of Visual Studio Express, Visual Studio Express for Web and Visual Studio Express for Windows 8.
There is no version of Express which can be used for regular Windows applications available for Windows 7. Even the Express for Windows 8 version forces Metro, especially on C++.
You can't expect people who would like to use this version of Express to just go out and buy Windows 8 to use Express when it is released as RTM, or for people on Windows 7 to buy one of the greater versions of Visual Studio. Even the current layout you are expecting that people who want to use Express for applications other than Metro will either have to use the command line tools or be forced to buy one of the greater versions. This is a loss of functionality compared to earlier versions of Express.
So please allow Visual Studio 11 Express to be installable on Windows 7 and allow non Metro applications on Windows 8.
UPDATE: This SKU is now available for download – details here: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/09/12/visual-studio-express-2012-for-windows-desktop-is-here.aspx
Thanks for all the feedback on this item. As you may have seen, we will plan to release a Visual Studio 2012 Express for Windows desktop this Fall. Full details are here:
Doug Turnure – Visual Studio PM
PS – I’m going to go ahead and close this item out and release your UserVoice votes back so you can apply them elsewhere.
I'm a developer and a huge MS fan and I advocate for Windows, C#, .Net, Kinect, WP7 and SQL Server every chance I get. However, I'm feeling pretty beat up at this point.
The first blow was the recent Silverlight disappintment in favor of HTML5. Then Silverlight isn't even going to run in the metro version of IE. Next I hear XNA isn't supported on WinRT, after I've spent hundreds of hours building an XNA game for WP7. In fact, none of my WP7 apps will run on Win8 wthout lots of reworking and rehashing, unlike iOS apps that are interchangeable. Now Express 11 will be crippled to only compile metro apps, the same metro apps that won't even work for my code because it's written XNA and Silverlight. I realize that things need to evolve, but I'm just tired of hitting walls. I may take a break from MS for a while until all this calms down.
WOW. This seems like a complete about-face for a company that had been very kind to hobbyists and casual programmers. Plus, there are app categories that don't apply to Metro -- Metro is consumption oriented.
says it all. And judging from the comments, this is not good news for Microsoft.
Brian Olson commented
I don't know what they are thinking with this change - all sorts of disturbing things related to this. Want to use a CI server (other than TFS), now you have to install Visual Studio on it instead of the Windows SDK.
They are losing developers - they should be taking steps to encourage more developers to code for the platform, not discourage them. This is just mind boggling that they would do this.
If the goal is to encourage developers to create apps for Metro then they should use the Carrot (give them incentive to write metro) not the Stick (punish them for not writing metro)
Bertrand Le Roy commented
.NET Micro Framework as well.
Not only C++, also support .NET for development apps, not everyone is interested in developing for Metro.
Tim VanFosson commented
There's basic functionality and then there's brain-dead functionality. Your free offering should have basic functionality to create ANY kind of application that runs on your platform. Then add awesomeness on top of it via the tools that professionals, who can afford reasonably priced tools to do their work, need to work efficiently and effectively. Do everything you can to lower barriers to entry for developers, not make it ****** to get the tools we need.
It's not about making more $$ from VS sales, in fact VS sales will be poor. It's a desperate attempt to save Metro. Microsoft hopes that those who are not comfortable with paying for VS will use the Express edition and write Metro apps. It won't turn out like this though. To write Metro apps your development environment has to be in Windows 8. No sane person will use Windows 8 as a PC OS, let alone a development OS.
Microsoft itself uses the synonym "tablet app" for "Metro app" - meaning Windows 8 is just a tablet OS. They also expect you to write those tablet apps while being inside that tablet OS which is unsuitable for productive tasks. There's a reason why writing Android and iOS apps doesn't have to be done while being inside Android or iOS.
Whoever at Microsoft came up with the "let's force developers to write Metro apps" plan is an idiot. This plan is evil but extremely flawed.
Steve Goguen commented
I love working with .NET, but it's decisions like this that make me wonder when I will eventually have to jump ship. While Microsoft is literally creating barriers for new .NET developers, younger developers are picking up Ruby, PHP, Objective-C. Windows and .NET are simply irrelevant to them.
If you really want to make money off the VS tools, the goal should be to give them freebies while they're young. Their employer will pay for their MSDN subscriptions.
I read the blog post where this was announced ( http://blogs.msdn.com/b/visualstudio/archive/2012/05/18/a-look-ahead-at-the-visual-studio-11-product-lineup-and-platform-support.aspx ) and haven't seen a rational posted for this that shows a benefit to the users/developers who would be using the product.
I don't want to reach a conclusion reactively, but without an insight into this decision I can't fault others for assuming this is some poor attempt at a cash grab. I don't think that it is because it's hard to objectively see the value in paying $500 to develop console apps in the latest IDE but it still stinks of really poor product stratification.
I don't think you completely understand the seriousness of this issue. You won't get your hands on any of the Microsoft's desktop-app-capable compilers unless you buy Professional+ of VS. This is not just an IDE thing.
Kevin McFarlane commented
I guess this means the increasingly capable SharpDevelop IDE will get more of a look-in. :)
I write freeware for Windows and I collaborate on open source software that also run on Windows. You can't ask me and them (beginners, free and open source writer) to pay $500 each and maybe more for pro bono work. Or maybe you want to eradicate free software on Windows ?
The software I write are not tablet software. I'm not saying Windows 8 or Metro is awful, I'm just saying that some software are better suited for desktop applications (think Visual Studio).
Now you're telling me, I won't be able to use all the new features of C++11 that you can see on Channel 9 every week. C++ renaissance, I don't think so.
I really hope the person(s) behind all those terrible decisions will eventually get fired. The sooner, the better.
"VS11 Express won't support writing desktop apps"
This is ridiculous!
This is sad for any open source / hobby developers who can't afford the 500 bucks.
But it is even more sad for MSFT since they will lose potential customers to freeware compiler and IDE alternatives which don't have the shortcomings of VS11. That is, creating productive non-METRO apps which will run on all *currently* supported Windows versions.
2 votes from me.
Anonymous, the Express editions won't support desktop apps at all. Doesn't matter if it's C++ or .NET - you can't write desktop apps at all! So Microsoft will actually lose developers in all areas (probably a big figure).
I think if users don't get a free tool to write native C++ applications MS will loose some developers in long term for C++ and gain more in .NET area. I hope native developers will not die out...just kidding, but what I said before is true.
Why is it that Microsoft tries to ***** developers in every possible way? The only way to get anything good from them is creating a "riot". Let's recall C++11 support and what it took to make them improve C++11 conformance - hundreds of disapponted posts on vcblog, channel 9, uservoice, connect etc.
I wouldn't be surprised if they reply to this uservoice item like this: "We didn't know people want to write desktop apps.". Like they tried to claim that they didn't know people wanted C++11 support. NONSENSE.
An important aspect of this is that:
(1) We can't write Metro apps on any OS other than Windows 8 (there is no Windows 8 emulator or simulator for Windows 7, like when developing Windows Phone apps)
(2) VC11 Express only supports Metro app development
So we have to conclude that this new version of Express only installs and works on Windows 8. So it's an almost pointless release. I think instead of using the name "Express" they should use a new name.