I suggest you ...

Bring back Classic Visual Basic, an improved version of Visual Basic 6.0 (the old idea has been stoped at 7400 votes for no good reason)

The silent majority of VB6 users did not ask for changes that came with .NET

We request Microsoft brings back classic Visual Basic as COM development is back with Windows 8.

Reloaded from: http://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio/suggestions/3440221-bring-back-classic-visual-basic-an-improved-versi

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    VB6 FireVB6 Fire shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
    RR shared a merged idea: Bring back Classic Visual Basic, an improved version of VB6 (reloaded from 7400 votes)  ·   · 

    492 comments

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      • SuperDreSuperDre commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @hman2828: yes the could do that without changing the language.. the only thing missing for actual OO programming is real inheritance, as we already have the needed keywords for it.. COM dependency doesn't have anything to do with the language itself IMHO...

      • HMan2828HMan2828 commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Sten

        Dismiss it as a joke if you want, but this really is what happened. VB6 users actual OO programming, strong typing to get rid of performance issues with the Variant type, less dependency on COM. All of it is in VB.NET. You didn't expect they could do these changes without affecting the language did you?

      • Sten2005 - vote for VB6 programmingSten2005 - vote for VB6 programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @HMan2828

        >> "Also to be fair, they repeatedly asked their VB6 customers to voice their opinions about what they wanted in a programming language, and most of what they heard helped shape VB.NET in the beginning. "

        Funniest one yet, keep them coming :):):)

      • MartinMartin commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        >> Also to be fair, they repeatedly asked their VB6 customers to voice their opinions about what they wanted in a programming language, and most of what they heard helped shape VB.NET in the beginning. Instead they focused on making .NET as great as it could be, and extended the support for the VB6 runtime.

        And that wasn't fair at all, because VB6 customers wanted continuation of developing Classic VB ( http://classicvb.org ), but Microsoft didn't listen to them. That's why they're protesting even today, because they were betrayed.

      • HMan2828HMan2828 commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Sten

        Microsoft said at the time:-
        "Visual Basic (.Net) 7.0 is recognizable as the descendant of previous versions of Visual Basic, and an existing Visual Basic programmer will feel an immediate familiarity with the language."

        Dim is Dim, For...Next, Do...Loop, check!

        "Visual Basic (.Net) 7.0 is as compatible with previous versions of Visual Basic as possible. Whenever practical, Visual Basic 7.0 has the same syntax, the same semantics and the same runtime behavior as its predecessors."

        If...Then...Else blocks are still evaluated the same way. So are Select Case blocks. Most of the language is pretty much the same, whenever practical. Do you disagree?

        I don't know where they were looking but there was little the 'same' about the VBdotNet and VB6 programming languages.

        The base language is virtually the same. .NET just has more syntactic sugar and also has loads of new constructs that simply did not exist in VB6.

        "It must be disappointing for you that Microsoft have announced their commitment to the VBA programming language in Office."

        Not really, the only thing I do in VBA in Office are the occasional macros, and VBA is fine for that. For plugins, I use the project template in Visual Studio. Those plugins work no matter if Office is 32 or 64 bits.

        "Haven't you heard ? Windows 10 is expected to be the last version of Windows."

        Nope haven`t heard... Care to share your source?

        "And Microsoft are going to extend support for VB6 programming beyond 2024."

        Again, sources?

        "You must really hate Microsoft."

        Nah I love them, they make great products!

        "Meanwhile VB6 programming and VBA programming just keeps rolling along."

        All the way up until it doesn`t!

      • HMan2828HMan2828 commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        >> dont worry most long term VB6 developers have a Plan B. Its just not always .Net. Have you ever used VB6?

        I programmed professionally for 10 years in VB5 and VB6, before moving to .NET. Prior to that I have a long history in multiple BASIC dialects, assembler (6502, 8088, AVR, PIC, ARM), and multiple higher level languages (some pascal, a little C, python, scripting languages, etc). I have a profound disgust for VB6. Not back then, mind you. Back then it was fun quick and dirty. Nothing else came close. It had its place. Not today, when there are multiple languages out there that do everything VB6 could do and lots lots more, better, faster, and more efficiently. I especially do not want Microsoft to devote one iota of time or money to it.

        >> We are in agreement. MS did not fully factor in VB6 users migrating huge and complex applications to VB. Net (or WhatEverLang.Net).

        To be fair they really didn't need to. VB6 compatibility was an early pipe dream, and while they tried at first, it quickly became quite evident that full compatibility would never happen, so they did the only thing they could do and forgot about VB6 and moved on. Also to be fair, they repeatedly asked their VB6 customers to voice their opinions about what they wanted in a programming language, and most of what they heard helped shape VB.NET in the beginning. Instead they focused on making .NET as great as it could be, and extended the support for the VB6 runtime. So people do NOT have to migrate. Eventually they will have to, but they will have had ample time to decide on a strategy and target language.

        >> .Net has some good attributes for creating modest applications. I work with exabytes of data. .Net has proven to me that it cant handle that yet. Hey I have my hopes. Maybe one day it will then that tool will be another option. Anything that needs heavy lifting and\or 64-bith I'll use C\C++.

        Which is exactly as it should be. But anyways VB6 won't handle more than 2GB of data anyways (and honestly I wouldn't want to see it try to), so this point is moot. Big Data is often handled through neural nets today, that is miles away from desktop computing.

        >> I am an Oracle book author and certified Oracle DBA. The wisest thing one can do if possible is to write pure ANSI SQL that way your code will scale and be compliant not only in Oracle but any database that is ANSI SQL compliant. If one must use the proprietary vendor SQL enhancements you hope they are committed to it working now and in a decade from now. At least with Oracle that is true. Oracle knows better than to force users to gut their app and move to something completely different.

        Agreed, however you cannot compare Oracle's product (a DBMS with about 50% market share) to VB6 (a fringe RAD tool from the 90's). Of course one always strides to use as much backwards compatible code as possible, but there are inevitable occasions where backwards compatibility has to be sacrificed to progress other aspects of a product.

        >> every opportunity I get that has both compelling biz requirements and customer funding I migrate VB6 applications to whatever platform best meets the requirement. It might be Android and Java these days (or BASIC4A).

        Whatever floats your boat. However do you really expect a longer shelf life from B4A than from .NET? This is why I was alluding to a grudge. Do whatever you want, just don't make the wrong choice just because of petty frustration.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @HMan282

        >> VB.NET is a VB interface to the .NET framework. There is NO new version of VB6. There never will be.

        We are in agreement. MS did not fully factor in VB6 users migrating huge and complex applications to VB. Net (or WhatEverLang.Net).

        >> If you prefer to hold a grudge against MS because they dropped your favorite toy, choose something else!

        No grudge. I use .Net. Also, Java, C, PHP, Python... .Net has some good attributes for creating modest applications. I work with exabytes of data. .Net has proven to me that it cant handle that yet. Hey I have my hopes. Maybe one day it will then that tool will be another option. Anything that needs heavy lifting and\or 64-bit I'll use C\C++.

        >> if you ever have had to deal with extensive SQL queries...

        I am an Oracle book author and certified Oracle DBA. The wisest thing one can do if possible is to write pure ANSI SQL that way your code will scale and be compliant not only in Oracle but any database that is ANSI SQL compliant. If one must use the proprietary vendor SQL enhancements you hope they are committed to it working now and in a decade from now. At least with Oracle that is true. Oracle knows better than to force users to gut their app and move to something completely different.

        >> The irony here is that VB.NET programmers are the VB6 programmers that DID have a plan B.

        Incorrect.

        Unless your application was inconsequential and\or less than 100k lines. I have seen a few cases\stories of a few that migrated huge apps to .Net to gain the same functionality they have before the migration. Bravo! I have also seen cases\stories of many more where this was an atrocity. I can vouch that atrocity is the normal experience for projects of this scope.

        Every opportunity I get that has both compelling biz requirements and customer funding I migrate VB6 applications to whatever platform best meets the requirement. It might be Android and Java these days (or BASIC4A). Dont worry most long term VB6 developers have a Plan B. Its just not always .Net.

        @HMan282 Have you ever used VB6?

      • Sten2005 - vote for VB6 programmingSten2005 - vote for VB6 programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @HMan2828

        >>Except VB.NET is NOT a new version of VB6. It never was!

        Microsoft said at the time:-
        "Visual Basic (.Net) 7.0 is recognizable as the descendant of previous versions of Visual Basic, and an existing Visual Basic programmer will feel an immediate familiarity with the language."
        "Visual Basic (.Net) 7.0 is as compatible with previous versions of Visual Basic as possible. Whenever practical, Visual Basic 7.0 has the same syntax, the same semantics and the same runtime behavior as its predecessors."

        I don't know where they were looking but there was little the 'same' about the VBdotNet and VB6 programming languages.
        And VBdotNet 7.x was virtually unusable.

        You are certainly right to say VBdotNet is not a new version of VB6. It never was and never will be.

        It must be disappointing for you that Microsoft have announced their commitment to the VBA programming language in Office.

        >>"Of course maybe your customers won't like to have to keep running Windows 10 when Windows 13 comes out"
        Haven't you heard ? Windows 10 is expected to be the last version of Windows. Your FUD about Windows vNext won't work anymore.

        And Microsoft are going to extend support for VB6 programming beyond 2024. You must really hate Microsoft.

        Meanwhile VB6 programming and VBA programming just keeps rolling along.

      • HMan2828HMan2828 commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Except VB.NET is NOT a new version of VB6. It never was!

        VB.NET is a VB interface to the .NET framework.

        There is NO new version of VB6. There never will be. Sure VBA stayed as it was. But I wouldn't hold my breath. MS already started to update major chunks of Office for .NET.

        "Whether we still choose to invest long term in a company that sees as part of its business model the option of exercising atrocities upon their loyal clients is up to each of us individually to decide for ourselves given the multitude of open source and other options."

        +1! At least you show some degree of intelligence unseen in this thread before. If you prefer to hold a grudge against MS because they dropped your favorite toy, choose something else! The bottom line stays the same: VB6 days are over, eventually you will need to move on. Some people seem to think this is the first time ever this kind of thing happens. It's not! When support for an old technology is dropped for whatever reason, there's always frustrated users who liked the old technology and can't see any of the advantages of the new technology. Well boo-hoo, we all get bad news at one point or another, just deal with it and move on.

        "C, SQL, PL/SQL, Clipper, xHarbour (HUGE list...) developers do not require entire code rewrites when moving to a new version."

        Well neither do you. Your code is working at the moment right? And it will still work indefinitely until MS finally decides to remove the VB6 runtime, for technical reasons or otherwise. But even then, nothing will prevent your application from running on the platforms that support the runtime. Of course maybe your customers won't like to have to keep running Windows 10 when Windows 13 comes out, but hey it still works! It's up to YOU to modify your software to offer the best possible experience for YOUR customers. If that involves a rewrite so take advantage of new platforms, then so be it, just do it and stop whining. It's not like they didn't warn you. If you don't want to do it, that's your call, as long as your customers don't mind sticking with what works, your application will keep on working.

        Also, if you ever have had to deal with extensive SQL queries in a data app, you would know some queries actually needed pretty much a full rewrite to go around dropped features from MSSQL 2000 to 2005 or 2008 for example. C is a special case, because almost nothing EVER gets deprecated, and whatever you may think, any experienced C programmer will tell you that is NOT a good thing. There are constructs in the C language that are extremely bad for many reasons. But they are never deprecated, and countless clueless beginners learn them and use them.

        "So those of you really locked into .Net ... dont get too used to it. Have a Plan B."

        The irony here is that VB.NET programmers are the VB6 programmers that DID have a plan B. The others are still in this thread whining about old deprecated software.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        OK lets just lay it out there.

        The evolution of VB2 -> VB3 -> VB4 -> VB5 -> VB6 did not require entire code rewrites. Sure there were road bumps but was not anything earth shattering. Comparatively, moving from VB6 -> .Net is an atrocity.

        a·troc·i·ty (-trs-t)
        n. pl. a·troc·i·ties
        1. Appalling or atrocious condition, quality, or behavior; monstrousness.
        2. An appalling or atrocious act, situation, or object, especially an act of unusual or illegal cruelty inflicted by an armed force on civilians or prisoners.

        Like most I use .Net, Java and the like also so this is not a polarized VB6 bigot opinion.

        Whether we still choose to invest long term in a company that sees as part of its business model the option of exercising atrocities upon their loyal clients is up to each of us individually to decide for ourselves given the multitude of open source and other options.

        Interestingly VBA coders have not had to rewrite their applications in full. Same with MS Access applications (not mine at least). Maybe the same is true for MS SQL Server.

        C, SQL, PL/SQL, Clipper, xHarbour (HUGE list...) developers do not require entire code rewrites when moving to a new version.

        So those of you really locked into .Net ... dont get too used to it. Have a Plan B. ;-)

      • Sten2005 - vote for VB6 programmingSten2005 - vote for VB6 programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @HMan2828

        >>But that's only your subjective opinion. The general consensus is the opposite.

        Yes, it's such a general consensus that here you are today, still arguing about it 12 years after Microsoft's attempt to replace the VB6 programming language.

      • HMan2828HMan2828 commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Man I really like how you said my name five time in one post, I must really be growing on you.

        In any case we all know this suggestion will yield nothing in the end, I'm just trying to help you make your peace with a dead language.

        See, I'm a logical person, and I can't stand seeing completely bogus statements and circular reasoning without putting in my grain of salt.

      • mlml commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        This guy @HMan2828 is too naive, fully don't understand programming。

        The Benefit from com/mfc to .Net is far less than from dos(command/single-task/black-white...) to windows(gui/mult-task/colorfuls...), .Net is just like MFC/COM only do a wrapper for win32 API for the convenience of program, didn't provide more functionality, even fewer functionality, and more slowly.

        Why this guy @HMan2828 worship the .net just like worshiped the god?

        If we do new web develop, yes, we will use asp .net mvc/java...
        If microsoft can import vb6 to .net, will so many of us ask for bring back vb6?

        But why this guy @HMan2828 want us rewrite our good client software with .net again? Because MS is going to cloud, .Net client-side(winform/wpf/silverlight/Lightswitch...) are likely going dead too.

        Why this guy @HMan2828 hold .net's thigh so tight and force others to hold .net's thigh just like him?
        Is this guy @HMan2828 a Mental patients or he is a dog of .net? I really don't understand very much.

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