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  1. 7,433 votes
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      1486 comments  ·  Visual Studio » Languages - Visual Basic  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

      We have read all of the comments on this thread and I’d like to thank you for providing your constructive feedback on this issue. Instead of merely repeating our support and migration guidance that has been laid out on http://msdn.com/vbrun, I’d like to address some of your specific comments here.

      To play back the feedback themes we’re hearing:
      - VB6 is awesome
      - VB6 needs to be brought forward and maintained: in a new release or OSS

      VB6 was and still is without a doubt awesome. VB6 made developers incredibly productive building a breadth of applications and as a result we have a wealth of applications and passionate developers to this day in 2014. One way I see our mission in developer tools is to empower developers to solve problems. This includes both today’s problems AND the problems of tomorrow. VB6, as you all have stated repeatedly in this…

      Anonymous gave this 1 vote  · 
      Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Delete…

      It would be really interesting if MS would actually update VB Classic but lets be a little pragmatic about this. If there were 3 Million developers using MS products you would need 30K signatures to equal 1%. 7K isn't necessarily a small number but it's less than 1%.

      If there were 1 Billion MS desktops in the world you would need VB Classic apps running on 10 Million of them to equal 1% of the market share. Not impossible but how do you compile the data?

      I wrote hundreds of thousands of lines of VB6 code over the years so I certainly feel everyone's pain about this. The reality is Technology, Microsoft and the World for that matter have moved on. Modern applications have to accomplish so much these days and be so flexible... I can't imagine using the old VB language for this purpose.

      How do you deal with a World that has moved to the Web and now Cloud based solutions all running on phones and tablets with a language like Classic VB? For all of the client/server line of business apps out there you might be able to pull something off but without the extensibility of the newer languages you're going to eventually run out of technology.

      I get the argument being put forth here. It makes sense on many levels but you might want to consider moving on. If for no other reason than to cover yourself as a professional developer. It only hurts for a little while.

      Good luck to everyone with this. I did cast a vote to do this purely because there are too many businesses out there who simply cannot or choose not to pay re-development costs. Microsoft should choose to assume some responsibility here. Porting to a 64 bit compiler is work but it's nothing they can't handle.

    • 4,286 votes
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        288 comments  ·  Visual Studio » User Interface  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

        Thanks to everyone who voted and commented on this issue. Visual Studio 2013 has added color in several broad reaching icon categories. We classified the icons we focused on into three sets: icons which represent common actions, icons which indicate code hierarchy, and icons that provide some kind of notification. By utilizing a systematic and broadly applicable approach to color use we are better able to effectively convey critical meaning or affiliation through color, to attract attention through color, and to improve scan-ability through color. This approach translates into color being applied to ~80% of standard toolbar and debug toolbar icons, ~75% of code hierarchy icons, and 100% of active notifications.

        Based upon the design goals outlined above and design decisions reflected in the existing scheme for each of the core icon sets we will continue to apply and extend our approach to icon colorization as we move forward. As…

        Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Delete…

        @Alex Edelstein - Thanks to you and your 1991 team members for the good work.

        @Microsoft - Why do you even keep this issue open? It's like an anxiety closet where everyone vents off their frustration until they're fighting with one another... or is that the goal?

        Build 2014 has been a huge disappointment. A mickey mouse Start Menu proposal with Metro Tiles, no Aero and no changes to the flat, dull and lifeless color schemes. Actually someone was singing the praises of the great Ribbon interface... whatever.

        And now we get Metro applications that run in... Windows !?!? with icons to close the Windows...

        Vote with your pocket books folks because this - is going nowhere.

        Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Delete…

        Everything you do with a computer generally begins with your eyes so I would say Yes, we are spending all of our time staring at the interface. I agree VS2013 is better looking than VS2012 but how does VS2012 rate when compared to VS2010? We all have an opinion and that's a good thing really.

        It's beginning to sound more and more like there's going to be some major changes to Windows based on consumer feedback towards Windows 8/8.1 It is my sincere wish MS gets it right in this next go-around. If there's going to be a desktop version optimized for mouse and keyboard then it's a good time to put the visual back into Visual Studio. Personally, I would like to see the desktop restored to something as visually good as Windows 7 and along with this, re-skin Visual Studio to be compatible with all of the visual features. In my opinion, we lost a lot of visual ground with Windows 8 and Metro.

        Lets move forward from this point. I think there's a good argument to be made to re-style if the rumors are true. And if I was Microsoft - I would share my plans going forward more freely. If your development community tells you it doesn't look too good - it probably doesn't look too good.

        One developer doesn't know everything but as a group we certainly have something to offer.

        Anonymous gave this 3 votes  · 
      • 13,351 votes
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          1210 comments  ·  Visual Studio » User Interface  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

          Updated Status: 7/2/2013

          Thanks to everyone who voted and commented on this issue. Visual Studio 2013 has increased color and contrast use within the user interface while continuing to focus on giving the content you are creating and editing visual prominence. We’ve utilized the feedback you gave us to help refine our approach to color and contrast within three main areas: 1) we added color to icons and reduced line weights to improve icon scan-ability and to better communicate icon meaning and categorization; 2) we added line work and raised contrast levels to increase visual separation between screen regions; 3) we included a built-in “Blue” theme option at product first launch to better support user choice.

          In keeping with these three areas we have made many changes to the Visual Studio 2013 built-in themes. In high utilization and icon intensive areas of the product, such as common toolbar actions and…

          Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Delete…

          Visual Studio 2013 - Better.

          I like the color scheme of the common action icons. The color usage is conservative but much more effective than the black and white.

          The border line work - better. I think it's important to have it there. I would include the color of the border lines in the color editor.

          Solution Explorer looks better. The icons at the top of the window need color. Maybe follow the common action coloring?

          I would still like to see support for Aero in the main window border. The dialog boxes all support it, why not the main window?

          Better.

          Anonymous gave this 3 votes  · 
          Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Delete…

          I see where VS 2013 will have an option to expand the pending changes window so I'm going to have to give them a pass on the "fiddly and small interface" remark - provided it works.

          I do hope there's some attention being given to the icon coloring. It's amazing how much it helps.

          Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Delete…

          I thought there was going to be a new focus on CSS in VS 2012. You have completely removed all of the color cues from the Manage Styles window. The fonts are "larger than they have to be" and all we get now are green check marks to indicate use of a style. I seriously, and I mean SERIOUSLY keep trying to give you guys a chance but every time I do, another feature is missing or has been re-worked to where it's difficult to use.

          For example:

          The lack of color in the solution and team explorers. It's tough enough to get a visual cue with everything mono-chromatic, then you try to check changes into TFS and find yourself having to drag and drop the ID's of your tasks into a fiddly and small interface. Pending changes is now just a hyperlink to the source control explorer full of more mono-chromatic icons and text. We used to have a docked window that took up no space what-so-ever when auto-hidden and was easy to look at and understand. It grouped your query and source control functions into one window with enough screen space to read the descriptions.

          Sorry, but this is not progress.

          Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Delete…

          @Anon - with all due respect to your position on this, I think you're missing our/the point. This is part of a larger rejection of the direction Microsoft has taken. There's serious work going on in many industries to improve the availability and the security of data. No one I have ever been in contact with said "hey I think the Windows desktop stinks, wouldn’t it be great if they would deprecate 4 decades of hard work and change it into a consumer oriented toy”?

          I work in health care. Our top concerns are security and data integrity. Touch screen operating systems are not on the list. As a matter of fact, the more changes they make the more vulnerable your data becomes due to unknown security issues and the inherent lack of familiarity with the operation of a new OS. The changes they are making to their eco-system are not trivial – nor are they popular.

          The developer community was very actively involved in this recent tools release. We applauded almost everything they were doing until we saw the new interface. This thread represents the development community’s response to the change.

          What you really should be upset about is the company who makes the tools you use every day to earn a living is not listening to you. They asked for feedback and ignored it. Where does this end? How far are they willing to take this and what impact will it have on your ability to provide for yourself?

          It’s up to you, but personally I would pay more attention the lack of concern for the development community who helped build Microsoft.

          Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Delete…

          As a longtime developer all I can say is wow. I've invested 25 years in learning and promoting the use of your products and managed to build a career for myself. Why? Because you had a successful business image and Exec's were comfortable with me using your products. I followed your design cues and produced applications that solved business problems i.e. we put some serious money on the table with good custom software. It looks good and it works even better.

          I've said it before and I'll say it again - there's real work to do out here. Giving serious development tools a modern or metro interface treatment is not necessary. It's a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. We need elegant development tools that are aligned with how we work today and are not being mocked by the entire user community as consumer oriented toys. Whatever your goals were with the desktop - it hasn't exactly been a hit.

          VS2012 needs the VS2010 skin and icons. The Windows desktop needs Aero, the Start Button and the Start Menu. Why? Because we need a consistent development platform to innovate and move technology forward. Out here in the real world it takes time and by extension money to change things. You're not helping us at all by giving the development tools a consumer interface treatment. Stability is everything. I see it. My customers see it. Why don't you?

          Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Delete…

          To be more specific, I think Microsoft products running on a Microsoft operating system should support the features of the given operating system.

          In other words - VS 2012 running on Windows 7 should support Aero and the other visual features.

          Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Delete…

          @Chris - no problem. For me personally this is more of a “what the...” moment than hate for 2012 - VS 2012 has good bones and poor skin. It's beautiful on the inside. I personally don’t care for the new (old) look and think a return to the 2010 skin would be a better and more visually compatible solution.

          Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Delete…

          I don't know if this is true or not but I stumbled across this doing some research on whether or not we should actually consider switching platforms.

          http://windows9info.com/windows-blue/item/anonymous-source-start-button-as-an-option-on-windows-blue

          Microsoft, if this is true make sure you keep Aero and put the chrome back into Visual Studio i.e. give us an option for the 2010 interface. There's still quite a few business application developers out here and there's no demand for Metro apps. I recognize and appreciate what you're trying to do and I have some empathy but honestly you were warned when you asked everyone what we thought of this.

          One other thing just in case someone is actually paying attention to this. Your font technology is not working well. Could we please clean this up or at the very least put an option in there to not use it. I strip it out of Win 7, pick a nice True Type font and everything looks better... well everything except your browser. Why do this?

          Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Delete…

          There's over 111K downloads of the theme editor. I see the proliferation of Metro to MSDN and Blog content. Buttons and navigation targets the size of my mouse, barely contrasting colors selected for text, confusing layouts...

          How does the primary creator of so many things cool on the web fall so far? The principles responsible for the mess are leaving or being asked to clean out their desks. A person could be forgiven for thinking the desktop has taken the hit it has over ego's and personal agenda.

          And so here we are with the... the... mess.

          Not happy.

          Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Delete…

          Is Microsoft going to give us an option to switch the IDE back to 2010 mode? You started development with the 2010 shell so it should be possible. The Theme Editor is very helpful and hats off to the guys who wrote it. Seriously, thanks. The thing is, it's just not going to cover everything. Running an expensive development environment all patched up to correct visuals is really rather silly. I started using Microsoft products years ago so I wouldn't have to do this. Ever.

          In all fairness to those of us in the community who don't like your interpretation of "Metro", we did voice our opinions early. You knew we didn't like it and you persisted. 40,000 downloads (and counting) of the Theme Editor makes quite a statement.

          I'm going to get 2012 forced in front of me pretty soon and while I look forward to the internal changes I'm not looking forward to the visual experience. I work with this interface 8 hours a day, 5 days week. THEN I write for myself. It's a lot of time in front of a piece of software.

          Without anything else to distract you from my message - I would like to have an option to revert the entire 2012 shell back to 2010. There's no good earthly reason for it to look the way it does and I for one am happy with whole Win7/Aero desktop computing experience along with the applications that were designed for it.

          Yeah, I know so keep using it - nobody is stopping you. That's fine but once the team here starts developing with 2012 the choice to use 2010 will not be there.

          Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Delete…

          When running VS 2012 on Windows 7 it is not recognizing Aero settings. While not exactly a color problem, I do use transparency and would like to see it recognized by the application.

          Thanks for the color editor, it does help but are we working on a solution for the icons?

        • 2 votes
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            0 comments  ·  Visual Studio » User Interface  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
            Anonymous gave this 1 vote  · 

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