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    Eugene shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

    We have read all of the comments on this thread and I’d like to thank you for providing your constructive feedback on this issue. Instead of merely repeating our support and migration guidance that has been laid out on http://msdn.com/vbrun, I’d like to address some of your specific comments here.

    To play back the feedback themes we’re hearing:
    - VB6 is awesome
    - VB6 needs to be brought forward and maintained: in a new release or OSS

    VB6 was and still is without a doubt awesome. VB6 made developers incredibly productive building a breadth of applications and as a result we have a wealth of applications and passionate developers to this day in 2014. One way I see our mission in developer tools is to empower developers to solve problems. This includes both today’s problems AND the problems of tomorrow. VB6, as you all have stated repeatedly in this thread, is an excellent tool for solving the problems of its day. We also stand behind our decision starting in 2002 to meet the current demands of our developers and the industry with .NET. For the scenarios VB6 set out to do, we see VB6 being “complete”. We feel good about VB6 being able to continue maintaining their applications for the past 15 years. Current needs ranging from distributed applications and services, to web applications and services, to devices, to new architectures and languages, required fundamental changes to the whole stack. We looked at how we could accommodate these needs through incremental changes to VB6 while maintaining its essence, and that was not possible.

    To address the modern needs we would need to go far beyond updating the language. We have to remember that VB6 is not just a language. VB6 is a language, a runtime, a platform library, a tool/IDE, and an ecosystem tightly packaged together in a way that made all of them work well together. We’ve worked with many customers on migration from VB6 to .NET and found that while yes, there are language changes, the dominating factor in migration difficulties isn’t the language differences. Even open sourcing the language/runtime wouldn’t solve the fact that VB6 was thought for a different set of problems, and the fact that its strength came from the end-to-end solution provided by all these five pieces working together. Take a change like 64bit, the complete runtime, tools and ecosystem chain would need to be retooled.

    So, moving forward what can we do? Where we have been able to help move forward is in our stance around support and interoperability. The VB6 runtime it is still a component of the Windows operating system and is a component shipped in Windows 8.1. It will be supported at least through 2024. This ensures your apps and components continue to run as you incrementally move forward to .NET. The support policy is here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/ms788708. There are numerous interop strategies that we developed and evolved to enable incremental migration as you upgrade your skills, described here: http://msdn.com/vbrun.

    In summary, VB6 was awesome. We agree. We don’t expect or demand anyone to throw away their code or rewrite from any of our technologies unless it makes business sense for them to do so. We have to innovate to enable our customers to innovate. It is not a viable option to create a next version of VB6. We stand by our decision to make VB.NET and the .NET Framework. We think they are awesome too. It is not feasible to open source VB6 tools chain and ecosystem. The VB6 runtime was last shipped in Windows 8.1 and will be supported for the lifetime of Windows 8.1. Support and interop are great tools to move forward incrementally.

    I hope you feel we’ve listened to your feedback and that I’ve explained things well enough that you understand our decision.

    Paul Yuknewicz
    Group Program Manager
    Microsoft Visual Studio Cloud Tools

    9317 comments

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      • VB6 programming just got a big boost from Microsoft commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        https://www.hanselman.com/blog/PuttingMyVB6WindowsAppsInTheWindows10StoreProjectCentennial.aspx

        Scott Hanselman shows how to configure a VB6 app to be hosted in the Windows 10 Store, using the Microsoft Desktop Bridge infrastructure and tools (bit.ly/2HFVzcc).
        That’s huge, as hosting an app in the store means that Microsoft is at least somewhat vouching for its compatibility and content. Potential purchasers perceive it as sort of a Good Computing Seal™

      • Lofaday - www VB64 com - A new IDE is on its way commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        "I have a big problem with people who have a big problem with other developers’ choices.". Me too. That's a prejudiced stance borne of jealousy and professional elitism calculated to hurt others for the sake of it.

        I have an even bigger problem with people who beg for help and then mug those who are lured to come to their aid. That's a loser stance borne of homey tribalism calculated at finding someone to vent their bitterness at.

        VBForums, don't complain. You and all those who damned VB6 with empty words of support sucked the life out of VB6 and reduced it to a smoking carcass, not MS. You had multiple chances to support initiatives but all you really wanted was something to moan about. Time wasting and toxic.

      • VB6 programming just got a big boost from Microsoft commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        David Platt in MSDN magazine has an article about VB6 programming this month (June 2018).

        "My three previous columns on it (www.msdn.com/magazine/jj133828 , www.msdn.com/magazine/dn745870 and www.msdn.com/magazine/mt632280) have generated far more mail, pro and con, than anything else I’ve ever written. Once again, I’ll goad the developers who continue to love VB6, and those who love to hate it and them, into spectacular combat, for my amusement and yours. ****, this is fun."

        "I have a big problem with people who have a big problem with other developers’ choices. Why do you care what someone else uses? Are you a Puritan as H.L. Mencken describes them: someone who lies awake at night with the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy?"

        https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/mt846730

        VB6 just keeps rollin’ along.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Lofaday

        Yes, I saw that thread at the time. But each of your comments had (I assume) been replaced with "Have a great day".

      • Lofaday - www VB64 com - A new IDE is on its way commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @anon, June 17, 2018 21:02, yes, thanks for reading it.

        That was followed up by http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.php?861655-How-Many-People-are-Sticking-around-Until-the-end-of-VB6 .. which was in answer to the oft stated suggestion that a demonstrator be furnished. .. And that was when things really went mad.

        For one thing, I decided a widely accepted "best in class" IDE editor (ACE and CODIAD) was better than my own so I threw my own out and edited theirs to suit whilst linking it with my fledgling compiler and making the entire project web based for instant accessibility. I felt that would add to the universality of the project, to make it more acceptable, and more open source. What did I get for my pains? I was told I had nothing but a cobbled together copy of open source and words. Then I was accused of trying to plunder the vbforums for commercial gain (the only gain I wanted was to fund the exercise). So I literally "gave up".

        Ps: That kickstarter 0was indeed poorly conceived (it wasn't anything to do with me BTW). But surely people would back it even a little? Why do folk "demand" excellence before they have even opened their wallet? I backed it.

        May I say that although I have been vocal in my criticism of these ideological savages, I really did mean to help them. Now, I absolutely do not. This is not about hoping to find a resolution, this is about a postmortem. I have moved on. When I say VB6 is dead, it is not a jab, it is the inevitable and pragmatic result of this market research.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Lofaday

        I've read through that link you gave (I hadn't seen it before).

        A lot of interesting stuff there.

        I do think perhaps you are being a little over-sensitive. Even those of us who would support your efforts aren't all going to agree with each other or with all your suggestions. Inevitably we each have different requirements and different priorities. And this is the internet, you will be insulted even if you were Job himself.

        It's sad that nothing came of this. Certainly transpiling seems the way to go.

        You mentioned a different project, a kickstarter, that received little support. If it is the one I am thinking of it was poorly defined (from memory it gave 3 options, use vbrichclient, use Lazarus, or sue Microsoft). It needed to be clearly defined in detail, as does any such proposal.

      • Lofaday - www VB64 com - A new IDE is on its way commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Can I draw your attention to 2 early comments? (re continuing my last comment)

        http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.php?842261-vb6-trans-compiling&p=5132635&viewfull=1#post5132635

        @Carlos, sorry to hear about your bad day. I promise you it is NOT about fishing for funds. I am very motivated by reversing the wrong done to non-career programmers by what appears to be a malicious act of obsoletion by MS followed by a protracted campaign of denigrating "unprofessional" VB6 programmers and coding standards etc. I am very motivated by helping VB6 programmers who I fervently believe to be a unique mindset, a unique type of intelligence, something that made them highly successful and, possibly, made the career-coders at Microsoft simply jealous.

        http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.php?842261-vb6-trans-compiling&p=5133359&viewfull=1#post5133359

        As I keep saying, this is not some venture to bleed you, my main motivation is having this for my own purposes to keep my own skills alive and port those skills elsewhere. It is upsetting, hurtful, very time wasting and frustrating to hear snide remarks like references to Southpark Gnomes and this constant barrage of negativity that seems at times intent on vandalism (upon me and your own futures), psychologically and financially, by undermining the project itself as well as me. I am not Microsoft, I did not do this to you. You could so easily have done this yourself -- and I'm not quite sure why nobody has. The only hard part of T4 is making a hashing vectoring indexer (just like proper databases and google etc itself obviously uses).

        ...So yes, I tried to help and I have been soundly trolled. That's why I will no longer be be party to any project that has anything to do
        with reviving VB6.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Lofaday

        So at last we see something.
        A website "under construction".
        And a language offering a combination of C, Java, Python and VBA.

        If you had posted that here first of all, rather than insulting VB6 users you would have received a better reception.

      • Lofaday - www VB64 com - A new IDE is on its way commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        "If you are going to do it, explain in detail exactly what it is you intend - otherwise stop blaming others."

        ..That is EXACTLY what I did. I made a website, a video, samples, everything. Oh yes, I can post a link on this site without being "told off" ... see: www.0AV.com .. it's still there.

        I have since removed everything to do with "VB6" for the toxicity reasons outlined.

        I'm on an intensive film shoot at the moment so have no time at all and will pick up the remains of 0AV (without any VB6 linkage) later this year unless something else comes up.

        There are some here that know me and to them I say I haven't lost the plot, I've just lost patience with imbeciles who want something for nothing, then get unrealistic and abusive, and even actively try to kill off the idea .. they are the folk who are killing VB6, not MS, not me, not the trolls... THEY need to be singled out if you ever want the RAD paradigm back.

        For those that are sane, stop apologizing for and excusing these folk. You know full well that they were all squealing about the loss of VB6 but you also know they did the sum of absolutely NOTHING when the opportunity came to back a kickstarter.

        I'm not unhappy, lets just say I will not stay quiet when I see people behaving badly or plain wrong-headed. It is better they are told. Then they can squeal again, but at least they will think and learn.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Lofaday

        "It is one of the most astonishing displays of human behavior I have ever been witness to, so no, I am not finished with you, and I will continue to tell the world in the hope that this self destructive innate need to troll is understood. "

        It seems to me you are the troll here. You blame and insult posters on this site because posters on a different site upset you (and no, I don't post on that site).

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Lofaday.

        "Vbforums was particularly toxic because you were all online mates with a 'who is this newcomer?' mentality."

        Again "you were all". Who is this 'all'. Again you are lumping together, presumably, all VB6 users. Just nonsense. I doubt few here even saw your posts on that site. Yet you harangue posters on this site.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Lofaday.

        Either do it or don't.

        But don't blame VB6 users on this site just because 2 or 3 people on another site upset you.
        Don't label every VB6 user as "belligerent VB6ers who don't want solutions", that's just insulting, and far from the truth.

        Comments like "It was hoped that the VB6 'community' (who turned out to be a bunch of weird old men in white pointy hats) would accept the gift of a solution, which was to be for free, in return for their championing our 'gift' " are nonsense.

        No solution was offered, or if so it was well hidden. Show me where on this forum you introduced or explained your plans. You didn't. Yet you come here blaming every VB6 user here for your own failure.

        You need to convince VB6 users, not insult and argue with them.

        Do I really need to point the illogicality of your argument?
        Where in one post you say it was hoped VB6 users "would accept the gift of a solution, which was to be for free" and your latest where you complain VB6 users "are suggesting that you be 'gifted' a working solution before you will even consider it. Do you even begin to see how selfish and idealistic that is? "

        If you are going to do it, explain in detail exactly what it is you intend - otherwise stop blaming others.

      • kontex commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        And if I ever make an alternative to VB6 (for example, my little daughter who wants to reuse code knowledge) then it certainly will not be a system that makes me dependent on M $.
        A point that I did not notice in 1994 when I chose VB4 / 5/6. It was not a financial mistake, all my wealth is based on it, yet it annoys me after my miss with MS Mobile.

        For myself (60 years old), however, there is no need, the term support for Windows 2016 is until the year 2027, and I can fulfill all the wishes of my customers quickly and optimally

      • Lofaday - www VB64 com - A new IDE is on its way commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Re anon', June 17, 2018 06:26); Dear ***less (Thanks Kontex)..

        You are suggesting that you be "gifted" a working solution before you will even consider it. Do you even begin to see how selfish and idealistic that is?

        So what have YOU done? I have written to MS, spoken the their lawyers about buying it, spoken to the so called founding-father, was one of about a half dozen who attempted to fund it's replacement (the other so called millions of VB6 enthusiasts of whom you are just one more couldn't even be bothered to sign up for the tiniest contribution), have written several major modules towards the compiler and interpreter to check feasibility, liaised with the guy who re-wrote many controls (vbforums krool), was all ready to go having written the business case, but found nothing but ***less hostility of which the tone of your comments even now, assuming some kind of arrogant unearned superiority, fabulously demonstrates.

        At one point, I even published my linkedin on vbforums showing my commercial credentials so you could see it was a concrete proposal. But I was met with almost instant personal attacks, so I quickly deleted it. Vbforums was particularly toxic because you were all online mates with a "who is this newcomer?" mentality.

        It is one of the most astonishing displays of human behavior I have ever been witness to, so no, I am not finished with you, and I will continue to tell the world in the hope that this self destructive innate need to troll is understood. My conclusion is you don't want a solution. There are those who look for a crusade to join but don't actually want progress as that would mean no more crusade. You want to polish your classic and troll MS or anyone who wants to help you, unwittingly ensuring VB6 was buried very deep as the brand became increasingly toxic.

        Looking on the bright side, at least we now know why there ISN'T a replacement for VB6.

      • Microsoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        This is the Microsoft support statement for VB6 programming...

        Support Statement for Visual Basic 6.0 on Windows
        (Note: The support policy below has been updated with Windows 10 version 1709 support information.)

        The Visual Basic team is committed to "It Just Works" compatibility for Visual Basic 6.0 applications on the following supported Windows operating systems:

        Windows 10
        Windows 8.1
        Windows 7
        Windows Server 2016
        Windows Server 2012 including R2
        Windows Server 2008 including R2

        The Visual Basic team’s goal is that Visual Basic 6.0 applications continue to run on supported Windows versions.
        As detailed in this document, the core Visual Basic 6.0 runtime will be supported for the full lifetime of supported Windows versions, which is five years of mainstream support followed by five years of extended support.

        The VB6 runtime will ship and will be supported in Windows 10 for the lifetime of the OS (that is until at least 2025).
        The VB6 runtime will ship and will be supported in Windows Server 2016 for the lifetime of the OS (that is until at least 2027).

        https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/visualstudio/visual-basic-6/visual-basic-6-support-policy

      • kontex commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        People who play anonymous have no *** in their pants.
        This lobbyism shows that there are people who have existential fear of VB6.
        Why else should someone deal with something that does not concern Him?

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