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    Eugene shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

    We have read all of the comments on this thread and I’d like to thank you for providing your constructive feedback on this issue. Instead of merely repeating our support and migration guidance that has been laid out on http://msdn.com/vbrun, I’d like to address some of your specific comments here.

    To play back the feedback themes we’re hearing:
    - VB6 is awesome
    - VB6 needs to be brought forward and maintained: in a new release or OSS

    VB6 was and still is without a doubt awesome. VB6 made developers incredibly productive building a breadth of applications and as a result we have a wealth of applications and passionate developers to this day in 2014. One way I see our mission in developer tools is to empower developers to solve problems. This includes both today’s problems AND the problems of tomorrow. VB6, as you all have stated repeatedly in this thread, is an excellent tool for solving the problems of its day. We also stand behind our decision starting in 2002 to meet the current demands of our developers and the industry with .NET. For the scenarios VB6 set out to do, we see VB6 being “complete”. We feel good about VB6 being able to continue maintaining their applications for the past 15 years. Current needs ranging from distributed applications and services, to web applications and services, to devices, to new architectures and languages, required fundamental changes to the whole stack. We looked at how we could accommodate these needs through incremental changes to VB6 while maintaining its essence, and that was not possible.

    To address the modern needs we would need to go far beyond updating the language. We have to remember that VB6 is not just a language. VB6 is a language, a runtime, a platform library, a tool/IDE, and an ecosystem tightly packaged together in a way that made all of them work well together. We’ve worked with many customers on migration from VB6 to .NET and found that while yes, there are language changes, the dominating factor in migration difficulties isn’t the language differences. Even open sourcing the language/runtime wouldn’t solve the fact that VB6 was thought for a different set of problems, and the fact that its strength came from the end-to-end solution provided by all these five pieces working together. Take a change like 64bit, the complete runtime, tools and ecosystem chain would need to be retooled.

    So, moving forward what can we do? Where we have been able to help move forward is in our stance around support and interoperability. The VB6 runtime it is still a component of the Windows operating system and is a component shipped in Windows 8.1. It will be supported at least through 2024. This ensures your apps and components continue to run as you incrementally move forward to .NET. The support policy is here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/ms788708. There are numerous interop strategies that we developed and evolved to enable incremental migration as you upgrade your skills, described here: http://msdn.com/vbrun.

    In summary, VB6 was awesome. We agree. We don’t expect or demand anyone to throw away their code or rewrite from any of our technologies unless it makes business sense for them to do so. We have to innovate to enable our customers to innovate. It is not a viable option to create a next version of VB6. We stand by our decision to make VB.NET and the .NET Framework. We think they are awesome too. It is not feasible to open source VB6 tools chain and ecosystem. The VB6 runtime was last shipped in Windows 8.1 and will be supported for the lifetime of Windows 8.1. Support and interop are great tools to move forward incrementally.

    I hope you feel we’ve listened to your feedback and that I’ve explained things well enough that you understand our decision.

    Paul Yuknewicz
    Group Program Manager
    Microsoft Visual Studio Cloud Tools

    8520 comments

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      • George commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I see Antony Jennifer Zagor is copying and pasting again.

        She seems to think she is a donkey farm, I presume that is some third-world thing.

      • VB6DonkeyFarm commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Visual Basic is not just a bad language -- it is a hideous jumble of traps and annoyances, a short step up from Intercal in usefulness.
        1. Awful declaration syntax and requirements. Variables must be declared but cannot be defined at the same time. Every interesting object is a "variant", which is a useless declaration.
        2. Prison-like development environment. I can't develop code that's not tied to a document somehow; I can't even put the code in source control except by copying the text out into a separate file, then copying it back in for use. I can't leave one routine partially written while I investigate something else, because the editor will go crazy.
        3. Active hostility to polymorphism. If I want a function to work for numbers, I have to make sure those numbers aren't wrapped in a 1x1 array (a variant!) because VB will not unwrap them for me. But I can't just test whether a function input is a variant, because that is too general.... there is no good solution to this.
        4. Complete lack of libraries. Methods that would be standardized in serious languages, or built directly into the language, are just missing. Where are my hash tables, deques, etc? Where are sort and unique and filter? Where is map? They are nowhere to be found, and I can't supply them except by loading documents over and over into the catastrophically bad IDE, see (2).
        Any of these would be a show-stopper for serious consideration of VB. (3) is the most painful to deal with, but I guess (4) is actually the most serious.

      • VB6DonkeyFarm commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        There will be no update and it would be ridiculous if so.
        I agree there are many applications developed in VB6 in the 90s. But it is not logical, practical or realistic to think that would be the norm in the future.
        Operating Systems are evolving and will not be held up by archaic code. It sounds harsh but it is a fact.
        Sorry

      • VB6DonkeyFarm commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        No one is going to use VB6 software. If it didn't happen 15 years ago, it won't happen now.
        The rules that applied then apply now. Companies do not pay to rewrite all their applications in the OLD and IRRELEVANT technology which does NOT function any longer.
        And VB6 applications generally run slower. It makes no sense.
        Only a developer living in an idealistic fantasy world thinks that and asked to bring back VB6.
        Some posters here have no knowledge or experience to understand why legacy applications SHOULD simply get rewritten in the latest and coolest technology, like NET. There are fundamental reasons why everyone is still talking about NET.
        Idealistic and simplistic notions of how organizations operate will not change that.

      • VB6 Programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @George

        >> "It is astounding to see a once popular language to became a mere shadow of it's distant prime. "

        >> In the Stack Overflow 2018 survey C# has fallen from #4 most popular to #8.
        https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018#most-popular-technologies

        It really is astonishing to see just how fast and how far ,Net is falling. Old technology with little to recommend it other than the Microsoft name.

      • George commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Lofaday

        "Python bugger's muddle" :):):)

        Python is more popular than C# or VB.Net :)

        Or should I say, C# and VB.Net are less popular than Python.

      • jennifer commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        One thing I am sure of is that today no professional or serious company will be color-dreaming about creating code with VB6 and expecting to make a buck. VB6 is a toy. It was and still is for just the beginners and amateurs. It is an irrelevant glue-code full of bugs and incompatibilities. In the early days many people created lots of junk code using VB6 and some were even lucky to sell their garbage code. Soon the industry realized the mess they are in with all that spaghetti VB6 code popping up like mushrooms. In fact it was the industry who asked MSFT to create something modern, viable, reusable and long-term, thus .NET was born. Those days of creating code on the cheap are over! There is no room for dreamers and suckers to make a quick buck without putting the effort. Today, you have to learn the trade of coding and you need to learn it good.

        Today, thankfully, amateur dreamers can't create their junk code like a multi-server software for travelers, "new" IDEs etc., without getting a proper education and without putting the required effort.

      • Lofaday - www VB64 com - A new IDE is on its way commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I so regret my millions I made out of VB6 because it must be so hurting the Jenny Tony Zagor trollplets .. Everyday I look out at my inner-city garden and watch the robins peck at my newly sewn lawn, the tree borders that screen out city life, the serene sound of distant sirens and helicopters while I sup my fine wine in my cane chair occasionally disturbed by the gardener. All paid for by VB6.

        How it must pain the career losers, drowning in their self delusion that mundanity is the key to their kingdom of heaven where they can sit forever without suffering piles and growing heads like spoons, and feel they can squeak and be understood..

        Nobody cares Zagor, Jenny, Tony, about your opinions unless you can validate your right to your squeeky shriek?s by revealing your success gained from your C# JS Python bugger's muddle. I've gone as far as I can go in naming mine without breaking NDA's.. Your turn.

      • jennifer commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        So VB6 lovers here want to keep on riding their donkeys. It's fine with me if you like donkey work and ignore the fact that VB6 is elected as the most hated language 3 years in a row. LOL.

      • George commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Antony Jennifer Zagor

        "it's not so hard to make the switch to C#."

        Haven't you seen that Stack Overflow and Tiobe are both showing that C# is a failing language.
        It failed as an alternative to Java. It failed as a replacement for VB6.
        And most of all it is unpopular with developers.

        In the Stack Overflow 2018 survey C# has fallen from #4 most popular to #8.
        https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018#most-popular-technologies

        C# has been losing popularity for the last 7 years
        https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/csharp/

        Too late for C#,it's sinking not swimming.

      • Antony commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        It's really that simple.

        What we have now is a modern, fully OO, and mature programming language that can compete at every level with any of the other OO languages out there. We have this available on a development platform that provides an infinite amount of additional features and performance to the programmer/user. Yet, there are those who complain that .NET is harder than VB 6. Duh?! That's because we are no longer working in a simplistic programming environment.

        it's not so hard to make the switch to C#. I think that expressing code in C# is much cleaner and easier than in VB6. I used VB6 for 6 years, and always cringed a little inside whenever I had to use a line extension character for a long statement. Having made the jump to C# over 12 years ago now, I find it's actually difficult to "think" in VB6 terms anymore.

        Don't fear the change, just get in the water and swim.

      • Antony commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        You'll always pay for your folly.
        Developers who jumped on the VB/COM bandwagon and bet their future career on VB6 made the wrong choice. It was clear from the beginning that VB6 was a poorly designed beast masked by its apparent simplicity. It wasn't simple, it was a complete mess under the hood. Just that most VB6 lovers (or should I say suckers) were just not smart enough to realize this, and now they are gonna pay for their stupidity.

      • George commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Zagor is so easily triggered.

        He is quiet for days then easily triggered with a factual post.

        :)

      • Lofaday - www VB64 com - A new IDE is on its way commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Antony Zagor: low quality liar. "IDE slow".. It was and is blindingly fast. Go troll Python or JS / Node / JQuery and all that other incomplete nonsense. This is a VB6 forum. Seeing as your psycho babble is exposed, you're now resorting to lies, hate and bigotry -- I have no idea what motivates you -- go see folk in white coats. You are not welcome here. (And leave your sister alone -- we don't want more of you).

        To others, forgive my aggression, but this guy is a seasoned troll trying every psycho tactic to vandalize someone else's property, skills and vision. Get him out of town. If you want to see my attempts at reasoning with him and other trolls, read below. No point in repetition.

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