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    Eugene shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

    We have read all of the comments on this thread and I’d like to thank you for providing your constructive feedback on this issue. Instead of merely repeating our support and migration guidance that has been laid out on http://msdn.com/vbrun, I’d like to address some of your specific comments here.

    To play back the feedback themes we’re hearing:
    - VB6 is awesome
    - VB6 needs to be brought forward and maintained: in a new release or OSS

    VB6 was and still is without a doubt awesome. VB6 made developers incredibly productive building a breadth of applications and as a result we have a wealth of applications and passionate developers to this day in 2014. One way I see our mission in developer tools is to empower developers to solve problems. This includes both today’s problems AND the problems of tomorrow. VB6, as you all have stated repeatedly in this thread, is an excellent tool for solving the problems of its day. We also stand behind our decision starting in 2002 to meet the current demands of our developers and the industry with .NET. For the scenarios VB6 set out to do, we see VB6 being “complete”. We feel good about VB6 being able to continue maintaining their applications for the past 15 years. Current needs ranging from distributed applications and services, to web applications and services, to devices, to new architectures and languages, required fundamental changes to the whole stack. We looked at how we could accommodate these needs through incremental changes to VB6 while maintaining its essence, and that was not possible.

    To address the modern needs we would need to go far beyond updating the language. We have to remember that VB6 is not just a language. VB6 is a language, a runtime, a platform library, a tool/IDE, and an ecosystem tightly packaged together in a way that made all of them work well together. We’ve worked with many customers on migration from VB6 to .NET and found that while yes, there are language changes, the dominating factor in migration difficulties isn’t the language differences. Even open sourcing the language/runtime wouldn’t solve the fact that VB6 was thought for a different set of problems, and the fact that its strength came from the end-to-end solution provided by all these five pieces working together. Take a change like 64bit, the complete runtime, tools and ecosystem chain would need to be retooled.

    So, moving forward what can we do? Where we have been able to help move forward is in our stance around support and interoperability. The VB6 runtime it is still a component of the Windows operating system and is a component shipped in Windows 8.1. It will be supported at least through 2024. This ensures your apps and components continue to run as you incrementally move forward to .NET. The support policy is here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/ms788708. There are numerous interop strategies that we developed and evolved to enable incremental migration as you upgrade your skills, described here: http://msdn.com/vbrun.

    In summary, VB6 was awesome. We agree. We don’t expect or demand anyone to throw away their code or rewrite from any of our technologies unless it makes business sense for them to do so. We have to innovate to enable our customers to innovate. It is not a viable option to create a next version of VB6. We stand by our decision to make VB.NET and the .NET Framework. We think they are awesome too. It is not feasible to open source VB6 tools chain and ecosystem. The VB6 runtime was last shipped in Windows 8.1 and will be supported for the lifetime of Windows 8.1. Support and interop are great tools to move forward incrementally.

    I hope you feel we’ve listened to your feedback and that I’ve explained things well enough that you understand our decision.

    Paul Yuknewicz
    Group Program Manager
    Microsoft Visual Studio Cloud Tools

    8520 comments

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      • Lofaday - www VB64 com - A new IDE is on its way commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Jennifer, assuming you are indeed a young developer confused about VB6's immortality, here's the thing.

        Many VB6 folk made a career out of VB6. I made a considerable amount of money out of it. Folk are very passionate about any attacks because --
        • this is not a choice, it is a career -- to some of us it is everything, VB6 dies and we might as well go back to using calculators.
        • this is actually a VB6 forum. Not a debate about whether or not VB6 should die. Ie: Your gate-crashing is a bit like me going to a feminist bash and declaring that woman can't program.
        • VB6 will only "die" if someone in Microsoft actively writes code to stop it working. Ie: It sits perfectly well with Windows. So the reason you upset people suggesting it should die is that some idiot in Microsoft might do exactly that.

        So just entertaining the possibility you are not Zagor having taken more than his 2 Blue Pills a day (LOL MichaelE), there you have it. VB6 is a good tool, but different. To defame it is, well, "skillism" (like racism against my skill set).

        Anyways, we are on track to bringing back the VB6 paradigm, so any slouch programmers out there relying on the .Net protectionist "bloat block" method of keeping new or entrepreneurial programmers out (the real reason VB6 was sidelined), will need to up their game.

      • MichaelE commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Nice troll posts. Taking mine and others comments way out of context and selectively posting data points to only build a case that backs an elitist point of view. Bravo!

        Don't mention that all development platforms are valid in environments they thrive in. Dont mention the huge roll VB6 played in shaping Windows development. Make sure to insult anyone not using .Net as being irrelevant.

        https://www.facebook.com/michael.elliott.3914207/videos/1824084670958680/

      • jennifer commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Anonymous

        If 78,344 coders elected VB6 as the most dreaded language with an overwhelming 90% for the last three years, I think this would be a 'considerable' sampling size among millions of programmers. Most of the polls (for example elections) would consider a much smaller sample size like 1k-2k. I guess you need a through education in statistics. ;)

      • Zagor calls herself jennifer, Martha and RabidVB6ster and thinks she's a donkey farm commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @jennifer

        "Now lets get back to the bottom line. VB6 has been elected by the millions of professional coders as the most dreaded language"

        You still haven't got your teacher to explain basic statistical analysis and sample sizes to you and Martha, have you?

        OK, let's start with something simple...

        1) You refer to "millions of professional coders". Actually 78,344 Stack Overflow users (not all professional coders) responded to the most popular languages section of the survey.
        NOT MILLIONS. NOT ALL PROFESSIONAL CODERS. ACTUALLY 78,3444 STACK OVERFLOW USERS.

        2) Of the 78,344 Stack Overflow users who responded, 54,677 use JavaScript (#1 most popular), while just 26,946 use C# (fallen in popularity to #8).

        3) Rust is the most loved language in the Stack Overflow survey.
        So given the above example, how many Rust users responded?
        Can you work out the answer? You can confer. You can use a calculator.

        4) No,seriously. How many Rust users responded? Not worked it out yet?

        5) Still waiting.

        6) Are you beginning to see the problem? No?

        7) keep trying...

      • jennifer commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Here in this forum we are talking about VB6. So, this being a VB6 request uservoice, all claims and (false)assertions regarding C# has no relevance whatsoever.

        Now lets get back to the bottom line. VB6 has been elected by the millions of professional coders as the most dreaded language, not only this year but also in 2016 and 2017. This destroys all the claims saying that VB6 is popular than ever and also most importantly makes this Uservoice request for "Bringing back VB6" obsolete, irrelevant and simply dead.

        As a young coder myself, I don't understand why some people here insists to continue beating a dead horse (called VB6). Nobody likes it (90% according to Stack Overflow Survey 2018) and no one wants to hear rantings like VB6 is the best, the greatest etc. What other proof do you need?You simply make a joke and a clown out of yourselves.

      • Zagor calls herself jennifer, Martha and RabidVB6ster and thinks she's a donkey farm commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @jennifer and @Martha

        While you are thinking about the answer to the question "How can Rust be both the most loved and yet UNpopular?", let's have a look at some of the other findings of the 2018 Stack Overflow survey....

        C# has fallen from #4 most popular in 2017 to #8 in 2018
        Only 60.4% of C# users love it. The other 40% of C# users don't want to use C#.
        Only 8% of developers who don't already use C# want to learn C#
        Xamarin is the #2 most dreaded framework.
        Only 34.4% use C#. JavaScript is twice as popular and is used by 69.8%

        When you have explained this you will begin to understand the nonsense of your posts about VB6 programming.

      • Zagor calls herself jennifer, Martha and RabidVB6ster and thinks she's a donkey farm commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @jennifer

        Perhaps you should also google 'sample size' and get Martha's teacher to explain to you both some basic statistical analysis concepts.

        Perhaps then you and Martha can explain why, in the Stack Overflow survey, the 'Rust' language is the most loved language (with 78.9% of the developers who use it loving it) but does not appear in the list of popular languages?

        How can Rust be both the most loved and yet UNpopular?
        When you have explained this you will begin to understand the nonsense of your posts about VB6 programming.

      • Lofaday - www VB64 com - A new IDE is on its way commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I'm loving it. @MichaelE, precisely. @Jennifer, can't imagine what jealous suffering you have felt from the success of VB6ers. The discomfort you clearly show has to have some Freudian fear of career armageddon -- perhaps you secretly fear the VB6 paradigm will rise again and make you look like a third rate bank clerk grimly holding on to the assertion that extra bureaucracy (aka s/w bloat) is all you need to keep the status quo?

      • jennifer commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        100% Agree with Martha. VB6 is dead. This years Stack Overflow results was the final nail in the coffin. RIP VB6. No purpose to promote VB6 here any more.

      • MichaelE commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I'd like to personally thank the VB6 hater trolls here for helping to keep the VB6 topic alive and well.

        Cheers!

      • Zagor calls herself jennifer, Martha and RabidVB6ster and thinks she's a donkey farm commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        "Every young coder I talk to is enthusiastic about .NET"

        No we are not.

        You gave us both Tiobe and Stack Overflow, both tell us C# and .Net are declining. Yet you now tell us they are both wrong and that you (talking to a handful of young coders) are right.

        You must be extremely young if you think that you personally speaking to young coders is some sort of proof about the popularity of C# and .Net.
        Try googling 'sample size' and you might learn something. Ask your teacher to explain it to you.

      • Martha commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Anonymous

        There is no proof that .NET is dying, on contrary it is thriving. Every young coder I talk to is enthusiastic about .NET. Its Ecosystem is huge.

        Though we can say that VB6 is long dead and buried. With 90% of programmers labeling VB6 as garbage (most hated language as per Stack Overflow 2016-17,18 survey by the millions), what other proof do we need? Keep on fooling yourself...lol...

      • Martha commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        C# and .Net Core are super cool. I start using them as a young developer and I love them. No one can change my mind, especially people in this forum who only code with VB6 which is a zombie language. Tiobe is a very dubious survey, as it uses internet search as their results. This means it is unreliable. Among programmers #C is seen as the king. If you can not code with .NET you are seen as a nobody. Nowadays, among young programmers, especially avoid mentioning that you like or know VB6 because you gona be regarded as the perfect fool or joke. The future is C# and .Net Core for sure. It is for all platforms. What else do you want?? Why should I learn any other garbage langauge like VB6??? It is only for losers, lol.

      • Zagor calls herself jennifer, Martha and RabidVB6ster and thinks she's a donkey farm commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Martha

        Have you seen this?
        I've just looked at the Tiobe site you pointed me to.

        C# has declined MASSIVELY since its peak way back in 2012

        https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/csharp/

        It's amazing just how big the decline is. I knew C# and .Net weren't as popular as they used to be, but I am stunned just how far it has fallen.

        Thank you for bringing this decline to the attention of everyone here. I'm sure we will all keep well away from this declining architecture.

      • Zagor calls herself jennifer, Martha and RabidVB6ster and thinks she's a donkey farm commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Martha

        For a young developer you seem rather out of date.

        Yes, .Net and C# were the next big thing over 15 years ago. But no young developer chooses them today. Leave them to the oldies nearing retirement. We know better.

        You are correct when you say that Tiobe shows C# has fallen to the #5 most popular programming language, having been surpassed by Python in both the Tiobe and Stack Overflow lists. That is enough to show any young developer that C# is not a language to choose. Leave C# to the oldies nearing retirement. We know better.

        And don't believe the oldies when they tell us that C# and .Net Core are for Web and Mobile development. They aren't. We know better. Leave them to the oldies nearing retirement.

        Martha, you need to stop looking to the past and choose the new, modern, vibrant languages and tools that score highly in Stack Overflow, not the insipid, dying, outdated C# and .Net.

      • Martha commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Anonymous,MichaelE

        You are dreaming in Color. There is only one language which is irrelevant and that is VB6. The proof is that 90% of all programmers hate it (Stack Overflow Survey 2016-2017-2018). Read this article below in order to see for yourself the bright future of .NET and C#.
        ----------------------------------------------

        Why .NET Core and C# are the Next Big Thing

        I have been playing with .NET Core for over a year now and have been very impressed with it. Since our company creates developer tools that also work with .NET Core, I feel like we are more plugged into what is going on. We talk to customers every day who are already running .NET Core apps in production. .NET Core is picking up steam fast, and I predict the demand will continue for .NET Core and C# developers throughout 2018.

        According to the TIOBE programming index, C# is already one of the top 5 programming languages.

        .Net C# Programming Languagesas
        Top 6 Things to Know About C# and .NET Core

        Find out why .NET Core is pushing C# to the top of the list of most popular programming languages.
        1. Easy to Learn

        If you have done any programming in C, java, or even javascript, the syntax of C# will feel very familiar to you. The syntax is simple to understand and read. Based on the TIOBE index I posted above, there are millions of developers who could easily make the switch from Java or C.

        There are lots of online resources to help you learn C#. Many are free and there are some that are low cost as well.

        Pluralsight – Low cost subscription to great educational content
        Microsoft Virtual Academy – Free videos and assessments
        Microsoft Getting Started with C# – Free interactive tutorials

        2. Modern Language Features

        .NET has been around a long time now and has steadily changed and improved over 15 years. Over the years I have seen awesome improvements like MVC, generics, LINQ, async/await and more. As someone who has dedicated myself to the language, it is awesome to see it improve over time. With .NET Core, a lot has changed, including all of the ASP.NET stack being completely overhauled. The C# programming language has been around for about 15 years and continues to improve over time.

        Here are some of .NET Core’s top features:

        Strongly typed
        Robust base class libraries
        Asynchronous programming – easy to use async/await pattern
        Garbage collection, automatic memory management
        LINQ – language integrated queries
        Generics – List<T>, Dictionary<T, T>
        Package management
        Share binaries across multiple platforms and frameworks
        Easy to use frameworks to create MVC web apps and RESTful APIs

        3. Versatility: Web, Mobile, Server, Desktop

        One of the best things about C# and .NET is the versatility of it. I can write desktop apps, web applications, background services, and even mobile apps thanks to Xamarin. Besides C#, all I really have to know is a little JavaScript (aided by TypeScript) to hack some UI code together (which I still try to avoid!). ASP.NET Core templates even make use of Bootstrap layouts and npm for pulling in client-side libraries.

        The versatility is a big deal because your investment in learning the language can be used for a wide array of things. Your skillset is highly portable. You can also jump from building web apps to mobile apps if you want to mix up what you are doing. This is a stark difference to most other programming languages that only work server side.

        And let’s not forget the first class support for Microsoft Azure. It’s never been easier to get up and running, and then deployed to the cloud in just a few clicks. Docker containers are also supported which makes it easy to deploy your app to AWS or other hosting providers as well.

        Docker containers are also supported which makes it easy to deploy your app to AWS or other hosting providers as well.
        4. Awesome Developer Tools

        Visual Studio has always been regarded as one of the best IDEs available for developers. It is a great code editor that supports features like code completion, debugging, profiling, git integration, unit testing, and much more. Visual Studio now offers a full featured free community edition.

        for more--->

        https://stackify.com/net-core-csharp-next-programming-language/

      • Zagor calls herself jennifer, Martha and RabidVB6ster and thinks she's a donkey farm commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Martha

        MichaelE has suggested some languages for you to look at.

        I'd suggest the following:-
        1) JavaScript - Stack Overflow tell us it is the most commonly used programming language for the sixth year in a row.
        2) Python - Stack Overflow say it has surpassed C# this year and is the fastest growing programming language.
        3) Java - Java is the perennial favorite and still more popular than Python.

        Python and JavaScript are also the languages most want to learn.

        For Frameworks I'd suggest:-
        1) Node.js
        2) AngularJS
        Stack Overflow tells us these are by far the most widely used.

        For Databases:-
        1) My SQL
        2) SQL Server
        Stack Overflow say these 2 are the most used

        For Platforms:-
        Stack Overflow say these are the most used...
        1) Linux
        2) Windows Desktop or Server
        3) Android
        4) AWS (cloud)

        What is clear is that Stack Overflow are telling us that Microsoft is no longer relevant.
        As you are a young developer you shouldn't be using .Net, that is the technology your parents would have used.

      • Zagor calls herself jennifer, Martha and RabidVB6ster and thinks she's a donkey farm commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Martha

        You know as well as everyone else that .Net is slowly dying. Yes there will still be a requirement to support legacy .Net applications but no one should be starting new .Net development now.

        But don't despair. Find yourself a modern language and don't waste time on the ancient .Net technology. It isn't a product for young developers anymore.

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