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    Eugene shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

    We have read all of the comments on this thread and I’d like to thank you for providing your constructive feedback on this issue. Instead of merely repeating our support and migration guidance that has been laid out on http://msdn.com/vbrun, I’d like to address some of your specific comments here.

    To play back the feedback themes we’re hearing:
    - VB6 is awesome
    - VB6 needs to be brought forward and maintained: in a new release or OSS

    VB6 was and still is without a doubt awesome. VB6 made developers incredibly productive building a breadth of applications and as a result we have a wealth of applications and passionate developers to this day in 2014. One way I see our mission in developer tools is to empower developers to solve problems. This includes both today’s problems AND the problems of tomorrow. VB6, as you all have stated repeatedly in this thread, is an excellent tool for solving the problems of its day. We also stand behind our decision starting in 2002 to meet the current demands of our developers and the industry with .NET. For the scenarios VB6 set out to do, we see VB6 being “complete”. We feel good about VB6 being able to continue maintaining their applications for the past 15 years. Current needs ranging from distributed applications and services, to web applications and services, to devices, to new architectures and languages, required fundamental changes to the whole stack. We looked at how we could accommodate these needs through incremental changes to VB6 while maintaining its essence, and that was not possible.

    To address the modern needs we would need to go far beyond updating the language. We have to remember that VB6 is not just a language. VB6 is a language, a runtime, a platform library, a tool/IDE, and an ecosystem tightly packaged together in a way that made all of them work well together. We’ve worked with many customers on migration from VB6 to .NET and found that while yes, there are language changes, the dominating factor in migration difficulties isn’t the language differences. Even open sourcing the language/runtime wouldn’t solve the fact that VB6 was thought for a different set of problems, and the fact that its strength came from the end-to-end solution provided by all these five pieces working together. Take a change like 64bit, the complete runtime, tools and ecosystem chain would need to be retooled.

    So, moving forward what can we do? Where we have been able to help move forward is in our stance around support and interoperability. The VB6 runtime it is still a component of the Windows operating system and is a component shipped in Windows 8.1. It will be supported at least through 2024. This ensures your apps and components continue to run as you incrementally move forward to .NET. The support policy is here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/ms788708. There are numerous interop strategies that we developed and evolved to enable incremental migration as you upgrade your skills, described here: http://msdn.com/vbrun.

    In summary, VB6 was awesome. We agree. We don’t expect or demand anyone to throw away their code or rewrite from any of our technologies unless it makes business sense for them to do so. We have to innovate to enable our customers to innovate. It is not a viable option to create a next version of VB6. We stand by our decision to make VB.NET and the .NET Framework. We think they are awesome too. It is not feasible to open source VB6 tools chain and ecosystem. The VB6 runtime was last shipped in Windows 8.1 and will be supported for the lifetime of Windows 8.1. Support and interop are great tools to move forward incrementally.

    I hope you feel we’ve listened to your feedback and that I’ve explained things well enough that you understand our decision.

    Paul Yuknewicz
    Group Program Manager
    Microsoft Visual Studio Cloud Tools

    9539 comments

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      • Jack L. Galloway commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Dear Microsoft,

        You are making a MAJOR mistake by trying to kill VB 6! VB 6 is the BEST product you ever made! IT NEEDS TO BE KEPT ALIVE and SUPPORTED!

        Jack L. Galloway - CEO

        RBT Unlimited, LLC

      • Henrique commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        SERIA BOM QUE A MICROSOFT VOLTASSE COM O BOM E VELHO VISUAL BASIC (VISUAL BASIC CLASSIC) E ABRISSE TODOS OS CÓDIGOS-FONTE DO VISUAL BASIC 6.0, TORNANDO-O OPEN SOURCE, ISTO É, QUALQUER UM QUE SOUBESSE PROGRAMAÇÃO MODIFICASSE ELE. ESTE VISUAL BASIC É FÁCIL DE APRENDER E MUITOS ESTÃO COM SAUDADES DELE!!!

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Most modern equipment support hardware virtualization: you may have whatever version of Windows (or Linux, or Apple) you want, and have VB6 installed on a WinXP virtual machine on top of it.
        I recently had to install Oracle's VirtualBox in order to concurrently maintain the current and next version of my system, and it has been one of the best experiences of the last few years.
        "Next" version has just become "current", but I still have precious on its original VPC, maintain current on another (I kind of like the "isolation" that a basically configured VPC provides), built another one to handle one customer's special requirements and another with Win7 to test the UI on newer OSs.
        By using virtual machines, I plan to keep the IDE working on top of XP on whatever machines I have to use for the rest of my programming career.

      • [Deleted User] commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        **********

        Re-reading my comments it's possible to misinterpret them as suggesting MS have tried to sabotage VB6 in a technical way, but I don't think MS would be that stupid to deliberately try to make it technically impossible to install and run VB6 on Windows 8 for no other reason than spite and what I am actually suggesting is that was MS are trying to sabotage VB6 in a concious "business decision" way.

        I'm not certain what memory related tweaks you are referring to, the tweaks I'm referring to are during installation, for example
        http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.php?687853-RESOLVED-VB6-and-Windows-8

        Microsoft are trying to cause a problem by not offically supporting the IDE, but still offically supporting the exes... but how do you create the exes if not through the IDE?

        This is MS official statement about the IDE:

        "The Visual Basic 6.0 IDE is no longer supported as of April 8, 2008. However, Custom Support Agreements may be available from Microsoft. Additionally, both the Windows and Visual Basic teams have tested Visual Basic 6.0 IDE on Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows Server 2008, and Windows 8 to understand and mitigate (if appropriate) serious regressions in application compatibility. This announcement does not change the support policy for the IDE."

        http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/ms788708.aspx

        The executables are offically supported on windows 8, but the IDE officially isn't, so would a dev in the enterprise be sensible to install and run the VB6 IDE on Windows 8, and could any executable created by the IDE be trusted to work 100% in all deployed scenarios? What does "if appropriate" mean in the above statement?

        There is a well documented problem with Windows 7 Service Pack 1 compilations not running on earlier versions of windows, and that caused a lot of wasted time. who knows if compiling stuff on windows 8 won't cause problems, the only thing we can guess is that MS won't respond quckly to any problems should they arise, if at all.

        So if it's not sensible to trust VB6 on windows 8, **** are stuck on windows 7. What then? The systems I have worked on were built to last, not be re-written every 10 years for no apparent reason other than to help Microsoft's bottom line. In fact they cannot be re-written without causing huge problems. Systems were written to be used for 20, 30, 40, 50 years. Look at some of the COBOL in operation today.

      • SuperDre commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Anymous: COM extremely slow compared to .NET? Oh that's why most to .NET converted applications run for **** compared to their non .NET counterparts....

        I do know a lot about good coding standards, but 'good coding standards' are in the eye of the beholder..

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @SuperDre: After reading all of your comments, especially the ones the are related to industry coding standards, I think you really need to take a step back a truly learn how to use OOP. I've been coding for well over 35 years and there are significant errors in all of your discussions. Anyone who thinks:

        3) Generics
        Again, great for lazy developers.... but it's usefull but not necessary..

        obviously knows nothing about good coding standards. Generics make code reusable. In VB6 you would be required to copy and paste an entire class, rename it, and modify it for it's similar purpose. Then try making updates to core code within the classes. You will need to manually do this for each and every copy. Not to mention the fact the COM is extremely slow when compared to .NET. I urge you to learn the differences.

      • SuperDre commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Dean: No, what you have to do to get it to work has to do with the fact vb6 IDE uses some flaky code for memory allocation (remember it was released around the end of win95 begin windows98) and that is the reason it doesn't run properly without some tweaking (it's due to the more restrict security measures when it comes to memory allocation), it's not because MS just deliberately did something to prevent the IDE from working.. Also therefore they have released the XP-mode with Windows 7 professional/ultimate (which is nothing more than a virtual PC, but integrated like it's a windows application), just for these kind of problems..

      • [Deleted User] commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        **********, yes I know, but the point is MS are doing that spitefully to try to phase out VB6, not for any other legitimate reason I know of.

        The fact it can be tweaked and installed proves the point very nicely!

      • Abraham Barry commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        This is my VB6 application, I got hundreds of users in the hispanic market research industry....Most of my users believe it was fully developed in modern C#, they say it is fast and reliable, errors free

        ....If the knew....

        http://www.rotatorsurvey.com

      • MIlan Oparnica commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Dear fellow programmers, I've posted here more than half a year ago.

        Just a waste of time !

        Lets stop beging !

        These great arguments and suggestions are not being listened to. Except for few kids, green enough not to understand the burden of large projects, no one else from the other side cares about this thread.

        Thread is a fake ! Microsoft is a fake !

        Let's fight back !

        We have dosens of ways to do that. There are free virtual machines, emulators, free office solutions, free database solutions, free qt-to-com, java-to-com, php-to-com, xy-to-com libraries, and a lot of other alternatives.

        We don't need Microsoft any more. Who cares if the new xy-windows will/will not support vb6 ?

        They should care if our software will support their OS ! It's quite useless by itself !
        I personaly know thousand companies that will say no to such an OS. How much of them do we know together ?

      • SuperDre commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Dean: the VB6 IDE isn't officially supported on Windows 7, but it does work (after you do some extra stuff)..

      • [Deleted User] commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I don't hate Microsoft, proof of that is I recently bought a Microsoft Keyboard and Mouse.

        The fact remains terminating VB6 caused a lot of confusion/wastage and now Windows 8 is something I'm not interested in.

        If MS terminate support for VB6 then there could be trouble ahead, but conversely if they figure out a way to placate VB6 users then they could regain some support.

        The VB6 IDE is not even officially supported on windows 8. Why shouldn't people be fed up?

      • Lofaday - 0AV com - new IDE abandoned commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Dean -- I am glad you brought that potential to my/our attention and indeed I have considered such things myself. However, I suspect using this excellent Microsoft managed forum to discuss that approach would lead to this forum being closed instantly, losing all this valuable debate and connectivity. Unless someone knows a better way to safeguard against that, I urge all to please email me (as my username) for an alternative VB6 Reinstatement news letter (confidential -- no one's email is revealed to others).

        I know of no other serious forum on this subject. Karl E Peterson started a popular blog & poll ( http://classicvb.org/petition/signme.asp? ) but by letting it fall into disrepair, it has done us a disservice by further discouraging a cohesive response (I have tried to contact Karl repeatedly). So let's have a backup by private mail to ensure this is not a waste of time. My thanks to Microsoft for allowing this forum so far.

      • ssjx commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Dean
        If Micrsoft told us in 1998 that will not support vb6 in 2002, I will never learn vb6, this is waste time, i will go java.
        If Micrsoft told developers today that they will not support .net five years later, the young student s and new develpers who will learn .net? no, they will all go to java.

      • [Deleted User] commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        *************************************** has filed a class-action suit against Microsoft
        http://www.zdnet.com/class-action-suit-filed-against-microsoft-over-surface-rt-7000019332/

        If they win, remember the company name, someone might be interested in filing a class action lawsuit for the miscommunication around VB6 "updgrade" VB.Net.

        Afterall, were companies not led to believe it was the SAME LANGUAGE - the "clue" is in the name.

        BUT it wasn't the same language.

        ** released VB6 in 1998 and effectively terminated it in 2002, and didn't tell businesses of their plans before they did so.

        If they stop supporting for VB6 maybe the SHTF big time at that point.

        It didn't in 2002 beacause maybe people didn't really appreciate the sheer stupidity and recklessness of what they did.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Daniel Jose Dos Santos:
        Do you fear that VB6 can come out from your closet and pull your feet while sleeping?
        Do you also hate COBOL, plain "C", africans and jews, or is your contemp limited to VB6 and VB6 programmers?

      • ssjx commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Steve
        Microsoft's today is not good, but this is not Steve Ballmer's fault, this is bill gates's fault, he do a very bad job before left Microsoft on 2008.
        Bill gates kill vb6 and force his developer waste time on .net, bill gates also force his developers to develop winfs and other import product use c#. Vista want use c# to develop kernel, this is of course is a joke, so vista was failed without a doubt.
        Because in last ten years, microsoft waste his time on .net, but .net is bad and can't be used to develop OS AND OFFICE this two most profitable products of microsoft.
        So .net harm to Microsoft, bill gates let microsoft to invest ten years in .net, this lead to many developer to leave windows's platform, so bill gates harm microsoft, not Steve Ballmer.

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