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    EugeneEugene shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

    We have read all of the comments on this thread and I’d like to thank you for providing your constructive feedback on this issue. Instead of merely repeating our support and migration guidance that has been laid out on http://msdn.com/vbrun, I’d like to address some of your specific comments here.

    To play back the feedback themes we’re hearing:
    - VB6 is awesome
    - VB6 needs to be brought forward and maintained: in a new release or OSS

    VB6 was and still is without a doubt awesome. VB6 made developers incredibly productive building a breadth of applications and as a result we have a wealth of applications and passionate developers to this day in 2014. One way I see our mission in developer tools is to empower developers to solve problems. This includes both today’s problems AND the problems of tomorrow. VB6, as you all have stated repeatedly in this thread, is an excellent tool for solving the problems of its day. We also stand behind our decision starting in 2002 to meet the current demands of our developers and the industry with .NET. For the scenarios VB6 set out to do, we see VB6 being “complete”. We feel good about VB6 being able to continue maintaining their applications for the past 15 years. Current needs ranging from distributed applications and services, to web applications and services, to devices, to new architectures and languages, required fundamental changes to the whole stack. We looked at how we could accommodate these needs through incremental changes to VB6 while maintaining its essence, and that was not possible.

    To address the modern needs we would need to go far beyond updating the language. We have to remember that VB6 is not just a language. VB6 is a language, a runtime, a platform library, a tool/IDE, and an ecosystem tightly packaged together in a way that made all of them work well together. We’ve worked with many customers on migration from VB6 to .NET and found that while yes, there are language changes, the dominating factor in migration difficulties isn’t the language differences. Even open sourcing the language/runtime wouldn’t solve the fact that VB6 was thought for a different set of problems, and the fact that its strength came from the end-to-end solution provided by all these five pieces working together. Take a change like 64bit, the complete runtime, tools and ecosystem chain would need to be retooled.

    So, moving forward what can we do? Where we have been able to help move forward is in our stance around support and interoperability. The VB6 runtime it is still a component of the Windows operating system and is a component shipped in Windows 8.1. It will be supported at least through 2024. This ensures your apps and components continue to run as you incrementally move forward to .NET. The support policy is here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/ms788708. There are numerous interop strategies that we developed and evolved to enable incremental migration as you upgrade your skills, described here: http://msdn.com/vbrun.

    In summary, VB6 was awesome. We agree. We don’t expect or demand anyone to throw away their code or rewrite from any of our technologies unless it makes business sense for them to do so. We have to innovate to enable our customers to innovate. It is not a viable option to create a next version of VB6. We stand by our decision to make VB.NET and the .NET Framework. We think they are awesome too. It is not feasible to open source VB6 tools chain and ecosystem. The VB6 runtime was last shipped in Windows 8.1 and will be supported for the lifetime of Windows 8.1. Support and interop are great tools to move forward incrementally.

    I hope you feel we’ve listened to your feedback and that I’ve explained things well enough that you understand our decision.

    Paul Yuknewicz
    Group Program Manager
    Microsoft Visual Studio Cloud Tools

    7060 comments

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      • Microsoft, update or open source VB6 programmingMicrosoft, update or open source VB6 programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        VB6 programming is everyone's favorite say Microsoft.
        ===========================================

        Microsoft say "Windows 10 is designed to run Windows 8.1 and Windows Phone 8.1 software programs. And yes, everyone’s favorite VB6 Runtime will continue to work, too."

        https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2015/06/22/getting-ready-for-windows-10-sdks-compatibility-bridges

      • .Net is failing.Net is failing commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        C# fastest falling language

        Microsoft's C# language is the fastest falling language over the last 5 years.

        Usage of C#, Microsoft's failing .Net language, has fallen over the period while more popular languages such as JavaScript, Python and Node.js has increased.

        https://stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dev-survey-2017&utm_content=em-features&utm_source=so-owned

        Who would choose to use C# now ? It simply does not make any sense.

      • Zagor TenayZagor Tenay commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        WHY TO BRING BACK VISUAL BASIC 6, WHEN IT IS THE MOST HATED LANGUAGE?

        The survey done by Stackoverflow, one of the most respected and popular programmer's resource website, indicated that Visual Basic 6 is the most dreaded programming language in 2017. Tens of thousands of professional programmers joined the survey and chosen VB6 the most unwanted language.
        So the question now is. Why in the world, any sane company or person would like to bring a most hated language back? Simply does not make sense. According to statistics from the survey only a minor portion of programmers (0.36%) would like to continue with this archaic and obsolete language. On the contrary, .NET is shown to be one of the most popular and loved programming frameworks according to the same study.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Eric

        You are correct...

        >>

        Why Microsoft .Net failed

        Microsoft tried, but it couldn't win the hearts and minds of developers who weren't already indoctrinated -- and it alienated others along the way

        Microsoft did many things right. It hired the smartest experts on language design, compilers, and virtual machines. But it also did some things terribly wrong.

        http://www.infoworld.com/article/2612302/application-development/why-microsoft--net-failed.html

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @TJ

        >> Crowdfunding campaign for a Windows 10 ultra mobile PC with an ARM chip

        >> https://liliputing.com/2017/03/crowfunding-campaign-shows-what-a-windows-10-umpc-with-an-arm-chip-could-look-like.html

        Interesting, but I think I would prefer a Microsoft Surface ARM.

        >> Windows 10 on ARM will be a big boost for VB6 programming. The slow and bloated dotNet will not be well suited to ARM processors.But both the VB6 programming IDE and VB6 applications will run well.

        Yes, VB6 is ideally suited to ARM processors.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @ARM brings back VB6 programming - interesting post, I look forward to Windows 10 on ARM.

        >>

        Windows 10 on ARM for mobile – Why native WIN32 coding could come back in style !

        "...true mobile (meaning with more than simply WIFI but full cellular capability, plus very long battery life, on phones and phablets) has so far eluded Intel."

        Two things are needed for building the next generation of Windows 10 applications which will run well on native Intel mobile devices, as well as non-native ARM based devices using the coming x86 emulation. The first is small size and fast speed.
        Performance of native coded applications using the WIN32 (or as close to it as possible) produces some of the smallest (use less resources too) and the fastest applications possible. Dot.net built applications just can not compare.
        Also, low level WIN32 is more procedural in nature than is dot.net and most modern languages. Procedural coding produces smaller, leaner, faster applications than its OOP based counterparts.

        https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/1160341/Windows-on-ARM-for-mobile-Why-native-WIN-coding-co

      • .Net is failing.Net is failing commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        C# fastest falling language

        Microsoft's C# language is the fastest falling language over the last 5 years.

        Usage of C#, Microsoft's failing .Net language, has fallen over the period while more popular languages such as JavaScript, Python and Node.js has increased.

        https://stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dev-survey-2017&utm_content=em-features&utm_source=so-owned

      • Lofaday - www VB64 com - A new IDE is on its wayLofaday - www VB64 com - A new IDE is on its way commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Zag, fine, thanks for being concise. Now can you tell us what it's all about? Are you trying to perform a public service to *help* us diehards? Did someone here offend you? Make you jealous? A quick look at your account suggests it is only us you seem to bless with your special love. PS: Same article says "Of course, 40.2% say they dread JavaScript, so polarization is the name of the game". VB6 is obsolete - we know this because MS told is so with near as much glee and fanfare as you do. So why it should even be compared to the others I don't know. This forum is about reviving VB6 as the focus for RAD. Not about telling others to switch careers (not yet anyway). So you see you are tilting at imaginary windmills. You are on the wrong page. You are like the Jihadi that burst into the boardroom and told us our women must wear kebabs... Just not relevant. But if you have a serious point to make, I will engage and respect. So!. What is it all about?

      • .Net is failing.Net is failing commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Classic Visual Basic more popular than VB.Net

        Microsoft's classic Visual Basic languages VB6 and VBA are more popular than VB.Net, Microsoft's failing .Net language.

        Classic Visual Basic is also more popular than Objective-C, Swift, Matlab, Perl and Go.

        https://stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dev-survey-2017&utm_content=em-features&utm_source=so-owned

      • .Net is failing.Net is failing commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Large fall in the popularity of C#

        Microsoft's C# language has fallen in popularity from 45% to 34% over the last 5 years.

        Over the period that JavaScript has increased in popularity, usage of C#, Microsoft's failing .Net language, has been shrinking.

        https://stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dev-survey-2017&utm_content=em-features&utm_source=so-owned

      • Lofaday - www VB64 com - A new IDE is on its wayLofaday - www VB64 com - A new IDE is on its way commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Zagor, the proof VB6 is still unbeatable is this simple fact: You cannot buy original copies of it for less than $200 on eBay. I have watched many copies come and go. I've seen it peak at well over $300. I'm talking about VB6 enterprise on its own or VS6 pro. Market rates DO NOT LIE!

        And! @Zagor, would you PLEASE at least show the common decency of keeping your comments short. I have no idea what your game is, but stop scrolling everybody else's comments off the page by posting vast cut and paste epistles. To others here, unless you can see something constructive in what Zag says, please click "Flag As Inappropriate" - they ask you no further questions. :-)

        @MichaelE -- your "secret weapon" comment is my favourite in some time. I agree! Young programmers are disadvantaged by being denied access to proper RAD. As said earlier, I use VB6 in new requirements as a software team leader -- because that is the quickest and easiest way of showing programmers exactly what is required. Often what I wrote in a couple of days to demonstrate a principal is still being used by clients months and years later. One such client is a robot manufacturer with product being sold to the world's most prestigious research facility. NDA prevents me adding further detail. Another is a university teaching software!

        So! I have no idea what planet Microsoft is on (Zag's evidently). They habitually come up with a really "dumb" decisions, and trying to dump COM & VB6 has to be the dumbest of all. Ps: VB64 / Alum6 is going well.

      • paulpaul commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Windows ME, the best windows ever.

        You inadvertently make an excellent point.
        We have all heard the news that Microsoft are to put full desktop Windows 10 on ARM processors (for laptops, tablets and maybe phones). So ARM will be able to support VB6 applications and the VB6 programming IDE. Good news for VB6 developers and for Microsoft.

        So now would be the time to bring back an updated version of Windows 9x (not ME but Windows 98 would be fine) to run on small IoT devices (Raspberry Pi and similar). These would run VB6 with its low RAM and CPU requirements, where .Net and other languages would struggle.
        Everything Microsoft have tried so far for IoT has failed because it has been too bloated for low-cost IoT boards.

        At last Microsoft could have a product for these devices, something they haven't really had since Windows CE and Windows Mobile 6.x

        Good suggestion @Windows ME.

      • MichaelEMichaelE commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Zagor thanks for posting that. Maybe they just go ahead and extend VB6 support from 2025 to 2050. Lets watch and find out!

      • Zagor TenayZagor Tenay commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        WHY VB6 WILL NEVER COME BACK (A simple analysis)

        Dear VB6 Users

        I have compiled some very simple facts in order to prove why the return of VB6 is impossible. Again the best way to move forward is to adapt a new technology like .NET, if you want to remain competitive in today's challenging software industry.
        As you may know, Stackoverflow Developer Survey 2017 is out. It proves that ONLY 0.34% of all Programmers still love VB6. Stackoverflow is a highly regarded programmer's web site, millions of people visiting each year. Here are some findings from Stackoverflow.

        Best Regards

        -----------------------------------------
        From Stackoverflow Developer Survey 2017 Results:
        "This year represents the largest group of respondents in our history: 64,000 developers took our annual survey in January."

        "For the second year in a row, Visual Basic (for 2017, Visual Basic 6, specifically) ranked as the most dreaded language. Most dreaded means that a high percentage of developers who are currently using the technology express no interest in continuing to do so."

        Visual Basic 6: 88.3% Rank=1

        Most Popular Languages=>

        Visual Basic 6: rank=23 percentage=2.9%

        88.3% of 2.9% makes = 2.56
        2.9 - 2.56 = 0.34% ==>

        ONLY 0.34% of all Programmers still love VB6.

      • EricEric commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Why Microsoft .Net failed

        Microsoft tried, but it couldn't win the hearts and minds of developers who weren't already indoctrinated -- and it alienated others along the way

        Microsoft did many things right. It hired the smartest experts on language design, compilers, and virtual machines. But it also did some things terribly wrong.

        http://www.infoworld.com/article/2612302/application-development/why-microsoft--net-failed.html

      • EricEric commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Congratulations to everyone here for reaching 7000 comments and keeping VB6 programming in Microsot's collective mind.

        Well done !

      • MichaelEMichaelE commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        >> Lets do some math;

        Whose math? A few links from a highly polarized source that only backs one point of is, well, fake news. Perhaps using multiple, credible and diverse data points you might be able to start a case.

        In any case, I am a nut in trying new technologies. Weekly I Google what new: compilers, IDE's and software dev systems etc. Still, in 2017, I find VB6 is amazingly potent.

        @Zagor (and in all the other names before you) you actually play a great role in keeping VB6 alive with your posts. You post miopic and\or non-objective posts and they dont fit with reality of of how VB6 users know the product to actually exist to us.

        Thanks!

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