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    EugeneEugene shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

    We have read all of the comments on this thread and I’d like to thank you for providing your constructive feedback on this issue. Instead of merely repeating our support and migration guidance that has been laid out on http://msdn.com/vbrun, I’d like to address some of your specific comments here.

    To play back the feedback themes we’re hearing:
    - VB6 is awesome
    - VB6 needs to be brought forward and maintained: in a new release or OSS

    VB6 was and still is without a doubt awesome. VB6 made developers incredibly productive building a breadth of applications and as a result we have a wealth of applications and passionate developers to this day in 2014. One way I see our mission in developer tools is to empower developers to solve problems. This includes both today’s problems AND the problems of tomorrow. VB6, as you all have stated repeatedly in this thread, is an excellent tool for solving the problems of its day. We also stand behind our decision starting in 2002 to meet the current demands of our developers and the industry with .NET. For the scenarios VB6 set out to do, we see VB6 being “complete”. We feel good about VB6 being able to continue maintaining their applications for the past 15 years. Current needs ranging from distributed applications and services, to web applications and services, to devices, to new architectures and languages, required fundamental changes to the whole stack. We looked at how we could accommodate these needs through incremental changes to VB6 while maintaining its essence, and that was not possible.

    To address the modern needs we would need to go far beyond updating the language. We have to remember that VB6 is not just a language. VB6 is a language, a runtime, a platform library, a tool/IDE, and an ecosystem tightly packaged together in a way that made all of them work well together. We’ve worked with many customers on migration from VB6 to .NET and found that while yes, there are language changes, the dominating factor in migration difficulties isn’t the language differences. Even open sourcing the language/runtime wouldn’t solve the fact that VB6 was thought for a different set of problems, and the fact that its strength came from the end-to-end solution provided by all these five pieces working together. Take a change like 64bit, the complete runtime, tools and ecosystem chain would need to be retooled.

    So, moving forward what can we do? Where we have been able to help move forward is in our stance around support and interoperability. The VB6 runtime it is still a component of the Windows operating system and is a component shipped in Windows 8.1. It will be supported at least through 2024. This ensures your apps and components continue to run as you incrementally move forward to .NET. The support policy is here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/ms788708. There are numerous interop strategies that we developed and evolved to enable incremental migration as you upgrade your skills, described here: http://msdn.com/vbrun.

    In summary, VB6 was awesome. We agree. We don’t expect or demand anyone to throw away their code or rewrite from any of our technologies unless it makes business sense for them to do so. We have to innovate to enable our customers to innovate. It is not a viable option to create a next version of VB6. We stand by our decision to make VB.NET and the .NET Framework. We think they are awesome too. It is not feasible to open source VB6 tools chain and ecosystem. The VB6 runtime was last shipped in Windows 8.1 and will be supported for the lifetime of Windows 8.1. Support and interop are great tools to move forward incrementally.

    I hope you feel we’ve listened to your feedback and that I’ve explained things well enough that you understand our decision.

    Paul Yuknewicz
    Group Program Manager
    Microsoft Visual Studio Cloud Tools

    7405 comments

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      • VB6 ProgrammingVB6 Programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Zagor Tenay

        I have just checked what Richard Collier has been posting...

        He says "C# is declining according to the PYPL index (for India, US and Worldwide)".
        I have checked on PYPL. He is correct, it does say that, for all 3 regions.
        .............. Richard Collier 1 - Zagor Tenay 0

        He says - the Stack Overflow 2017 survey says "In the five years we've been collecting the Developer Survey, we've seen languages such as Python and Node.js grow in popularity, while the usage of languages like C# and C has been shrinking."
        I have checked on Stack Overflow. It took some finding but he is correct it does say that.
        .............. Richard Collier 2 - Zagor Tenay 0

        He says about the Tiobe index - "C# has fallen from 4th position to 5th position. The latest survey shows a continuation of C-sharp's 5 year decline."
        I have checked on Tiobe. He is correct it does say that. I must admit I hadn't realized just how much C# had fallen in the last 5 years. Devastating.
        .............. Richard Collier 3 - Zagor Tenay 0

        You may not like the facts, but C# is clearly declining.

      • VB6 ProgrammingVB6 Programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Zagor Tenay

        And you (presumably deliberately) ignore the main point:-

        VB6 "applications will continue to run in Windows indefinitely so a major part of the 'need' for a vb6 replacement has now disappeared."

        VB6 programming will continue in Windows until at least 2027 (assuming Windows lasts that long).

      • VB6 ProgrammingVB6 Programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Zagor Tenay

        Tiobe don't even measure either B4X or NSBasic. The Xojo language which you now seem to be promoting doesn't feature in the top 100.

        But NSBasic have over 1 million users who have PAID for licenses.
        How many users does C# have ? And how few of them have actually paid for licenses. Microsoft have to give C# and Visual Studio away now to get anyone to use it.

      • Zagor TenayZagor Tenay commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @VB6 Programming

        Yeah sure. That's why there are not even in the list of the most used programming languages. (Not even in the first 100. LOL).

      • Zagor TenayZagor Tenay commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Richard Collier

        Hmmm. Now you came up with PYPL index. A bit of progress but not enough. You should work harder. It is not enough. I want to see more efforts from you. We should convince people to leave C# and go back to VB6....But,but...what will we do if C# is searched more on the internet next month and C# goes up at Tiobe and VB6 goes down?? Never thought of it....;)

      • VB6 ProgrammingVB6 Programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Anonymous

        Good to see a reasoned post here, rather than some of the nonsense we have seen recently.

        Anywhere Software ( https://www.b4x.com/ ) have an excellent set of products - B4A for Android, B4i for iOS (iPad and iPhone), B4J for Java (Desktops) and B4R for Arduino. All are based around the Visual Basic language. You can even build http servers with B4J.

        Another product is NS BASIC ( https://www.nsbasic.com ). Again based on classic Visual Basic, NSBasic is VB6 for the web and for mobiles (Android and iOS). ActiveXs aren't supported, of course, but there are many similar controls included. You can use an inbuilt control, name it exactly the same as your ActiveX control, and copy and paste VB6 code into NSBasic.
        NSBasic has over 1 million users in over 70 countries (August 2016).

        Most important, though, is your statement "my applications will continue to run in Windows indefinitely so a major part of the 'need' for a vb6 replacement has now disappeared."
        And that is absolutely correct. VB6 programming never went away. It runs on Vista, on Windows 7, on Windows 8.x, and on Windows 10 too. And it runs on Windows Server 2012 and 2016.
        And it will continue to do so until at least 2027 (assuming Windows lasts that long).

        And with the new Windows 10 for ARM, VB6 applications will run ARM tablets too, as will the VB6 IDE.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I bought a copy of B4Android a few years ago and it was really simple to make an Android application with it. I confess though that I was only dabbling with it and never got around to testing its capabilities fully. But I've just read the comments by Zagor dissing it and I think he's being very unfair and that's why I'm commenting.
        If you look at the forums for the B4X range they are extremely active and have had 90K people take the trouble to sign up.
        What Erel has achieved is staggering to my eyes, he has practically every platform imaginable covered. If there was ever a guy I'd back to write an updated version of VB6 that could migrate existing projects, he'd be man!

        Unfortunately I think that ship has sailed a long time ago from a commercial perspective though. After years of angst I am relatively sure that my applications will continue to run in Windows indefinitely so a major part of the 'need' for a vb6 replacement has now disappeared.
        I'd still pay quite a lot for an upgraded version though!

      • Richard CollierRichard Collier commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        MOST POPULAR PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES from the TIOBE Index May 2017

        C# has fallen from 4th position to 5th position. The latest survey shows a continuation of C-sharp's 5 year decline.

        Visual Basic climbs to 12th position !!!

        1 ..... - ... Java .......................... 14.639%
        2 ..... - ... C ................................ 7.002%
        3 ..... - ... C++ ............................ 4.751%
        4 .... ▲ .. Python ........................ 3.548%
        5 .... ▼ .. C# .............................. 3.457% ........▼▼▼
        6 .... ▲ .. Visual Basic .NET ....... 3.391%
        7 ..... - ... JavaScript ................... 3.071%
        8 .... ▲ .. Assembly language ..... 2.859%
        9 .... ▼ .. PHP ........................... 2.693%
        10 .. ▼ .. Perl ............................ 2.602%
        11 .. ▼ .. Ruby .......................... 2.429%
        12 .. ▲ .. Visual Basic ................ 2.347% ........▲▲▲
        13 .. ▲ .. Swift ........................... 2.274%
        14 .. ▲ .. R ................................ 2.192%
        15 .. ▼ .. Objective-C .................. 2.101%
        16 .. ▲ .. Go .............................. 2.080%
        17 .. ▲ .. MATLAB ..................... 2.063%
        18 .. ▼ .. Delphi/Object Pascal .... 2.038%
        19 ... - ... PL/SQL ....................... 1.676%
        20 .. ▲ .. Scratch ....................... 1.668%

        https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index//

        C# decline

        Source: Zagor Tenay. Thanks for choosing the Tiobe index which highlights the 5 year decline of C# at the same time that Visual Basic is increasing in popularity.

      • Richard CollierRichard Collier commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        In what Zagor Tenay describes as the "very convincing survey result which was conducted by Stackoverflow in 2017" it says:

        - "In the five years we've been collecting the Developer Survey, we've seen languages such as Python and Node.js grow in popularity, while the usage of languages like C# and C has been shrinking."

        https://stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017

        Source: Zagor Tenay - Thanks for choosing the Stack Overflow survey and bringing to everyone's attention the fact that usage of C# has been shrinking over the last 5 years.

      • Richard CollierRichard Collier commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        C# is declining according to the PYPL index (for India, US and Worldwide).

        PYPL says:-
        - "In India C# was at 9.3% in October 2014, and fell to 7.5% by April 2017."
        - US and worldwide results are similar.

        Source: Zagor Tenay - Thanks for choosing the PYPL index, many of us hadn't realized C# was declining before.

      • Richard CollierRichard Collier commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Zagor Tenay chooses 3 sources, Stack Overflow, Tiobe and PYPL to show how good C# is.

        Yet ALL 3 show C# is declining!!!

        All three of HIS CHOSEN sources show C-sharp declining. There is a reason for that. It is because C# is declining.

        Source: Zagor Tenay - Thanks for highlighting the decline of C#, many of us hadn't realized this before.

      • Zagor TenayZagor Tenay commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @MichaelE

        Few questions to you. 1-Do you really still use VB6? 2- Did you ever use .NET? 3- Are you or have ever been a professional Programmer? Thanks in advance.

      • Zagor TenayZagor Tenay commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Mama

        But then how come is Xojo faster than VB6? Your company should really consider Xojo. Your telecom applications will run faster. ;)

      • Zagor TenayZagor Tenay commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Richard Collier

        You disappointed me. I thought you are more creative than that. I expect other creative stuff besides Tiobe. :):):)

      • MamaMama commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Zagor Tenay

        no, they are the people with the money and vision that understand that VB6 is supported AT LEAST UNTIL 2027. That is why you will stay at this level all your pathetic life :)

        PS: VB6 is king of al languages, we come with advanced open source project each time and you don't. You don't have what to show in VB. NET! Pathetic ! Your moxjo non-language is out of the talk ... nothing to talk of :))))))))))))

      • Richard CollierRichard Collier commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        The Tiobe index of programming language popularity shows C# has been declining for over 5 years.

        Here is the graph of C#'s decline: https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/csharp/

        Why does Microsoft's premier language which is constantly being updated by Microsoft, being promoted by Microsoft and its fanbois, being extended with products like Xamarin, and best of all is now given away FREE, just keep on declining in popularity ?

        Why is C# in a 5 year decline ?

        Source: Zagor Tenay - Thanks for highlighting the decline of C#, many of us hadn't realized this before.

      • Richard CollierRichard Collier commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        The 2017 Stack Overflow survey says:-

        "In the five years we've been collecting the Developer Survey, we've seen languages such as Python and Node.js grow in popularity, while the usage of languages like C# and C has been shrinking."

        C# is in decline.

        Source: Zagor Tenay - Thanks for providing the link to Stack Overflow, many of us hadn't realized C# was declining.

      • Zagor TenayZagor Tenay commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Mama

        "People, People ! My company just bought a Visual Basic 6.0 software for telecom communications"

        Are they crazy? They will go bankrupt for sure. Where is this company and what is the name? They might as well go for Xojo. It is faster than VB6! :D:D:D

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