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    EugeneEugene shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

    We have read all of the comments on this thread and I’d like to thank you for providing your constructive feedback on this issue. Instead of merely repeating our support and migration guidance that has been laid out on http://msdn.com/vbrun, I’d like to address some of your specific comments here.

    To play back the feedback themes we’re hearing:
    - VB6 is awesome
    - VB6 needs to be brought forward and maintained: in a new release or OSS

    VB6 was and still is without a doubt awesome. VB6 made developers incredibly productive building a breadth of applications and as a result we have a wealth of applications and passionate developers to this day in 2014. One way I see our mission in developer tools is to empower developers to solve problems. This includes both today’s problems AND the problems of tomorrow. VB6, as you all have stated repeatedly in this thread, is an excellent tool for solving the problems of its day. We also stand behind our decision starting in 2002 to meet the current demands of our developers and the industry with .NET. For the scenarios VB6 set out to do, we see VB6 being “complete”. We feel good about VB6 being able to continue maintaining their applications for the past 15 years. Current needs ranging from distributed applications and services, to web applications and services, to devices, to new architectures and languages, required fundamental changes to the whole stack. We looked at how we could accommodate these needs through incremental changes to VB6 while maintaining its essence, and that was not possible.

    To address the modern needs we would need to go far beyond updating the language. We have to remember that VB6 is not just a language. VB6 is a language, a runtime, a platform library, a tool/IDE, and an ecosystem tightly packaged together in a way that made all of them work well together. We’ve worked with many customers on migration from VB6 to .NET and found that while yes, there are language changes, the dominating factor in migration difficulties isn’t the language differences. Even open sourcing the language/runtime wouldn’t solve the fact that VB6 was thought for a different set of problems, and the fact that its strength came from the end-to-end solution provided by all these five pieces working together. Take a change like 64bit, the complete runtime, tools and ecosystem chain would need to be retooled.

    So, moving forward what can we do? Where we have been able to help move forward is in our stance around support and interoperability. The VB6 runtime it is still a component of the Windows operating system and is a component shipped in Windows 8.1. It will be supported at least through 2024. This ensures your apps and components continue to run as you incrementally move forward to .NET. The support policy is here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/ms788708. There are numerous interop strategies that we developed and evolved to enable incremental migration as you upgrade your skills, described here: http://msdn.com/vbrun.

    In summary, VB6 was awesome. We agree. We don’t expect or demand anyone to throw away their code or rewrite from any of our technologies unless it makes business sense for them to do so. We have to innovate to enable our customers to innovate. It is not a viable option to create a next version of VB6. We stand by our decision to make VB.NET and the .NET Framework. We think they are awesome too. It is not feasible to open source VB6 tools chain and ecosystem. The VB6 runtime was last shipped in Windows 8.1 and will be supported for the lifetime of Windows 8.1. Support and interop are great tools to move forward incrementally.

    I hope you feel we’ve listened to your feedback and that I’ve explained things well enough that you understand our decision.

    Paul Yuknewicz
    Group Program Manager
    Microsoft Visual Studio Cloud Tools

    7385 comments

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      • Richard CollierRichard Collier commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        LEADING PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES

        TIOBE Index May 2017 - C# has fallen from 4th position to 5th position.
        The latest survey shows a continuation of C-sharp's 5 year decline.
        Visual Basic climbs to 12th.

        1 ..... - ... Java ......................... 14.639%
        2 ..... - ... C ............................... 7.002%
        3 ..... - ... C++ ........................... 4.751%
        4 .... ▲ .. Python ....................... 3.548%
        5 .... ▼ .. C# .............................. 3.457%
        6 .... ▲ .. Visual Basic .NET ....... 3.391%
        7 ..... - ... JavaScript ................... 3.071%
        8 .... ▲ .. Assembly language ..... 2.859%
        9 .... ▼ .. PHP ............................ 2.693%
        10 .. ▼ .. Perl ............................ 2.602%
        11 .. ▼ .. Ruby .......................... 2.429%
        12 .. ▲ .. Visual Basic ................ 2.347%
        13 .. ▲ .. Swift ........................... 2.274%
        14 .. ▲ .. R ................................ 2.192%
        15 .. ▼ .. Objective-C .................. 2.101%
        16 .. ▲ .. Go .............................. 2.080%
        17 .. ▲ .. MATLAB ..................... 2.063%
        18 .. ▼ .. Delphi/Object Pascal .... 2.038%
        19 ... - ... PL/SQL ....................... 1.676%
        20 .. ▲ .. Scratch ....................... 1.668%

        https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index//

        C# decline

        Source: Zagor Tenay. Thanks for highlighting C#'s 5 year decline.

      • Richard CollierRichard Collier commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        THE DECLINE OF C#

        >> "The link below shows a statistics from credible four sources. It is evident that C# protects it's place and going strong."
        >> http://statisticstimes.com/tech/top-computer-languages.php.

        The 'four sources' that link uses are the Tiobe index plus 3 regional sources of the PyPl index.

        The Tiobe index shows C# falling and Visual Basic climbing.

        The PyPl index shows (for India, US and Worldwide) C# is declining.

        Source: Zagor Tenay. Without you, we wouldn't have realized how badly C# had fallen.

      • Richard CollierRichard Collier commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        THE DECLINE OF .NET

        C# has been falling since 2012. Now it has fallen to fifth place in the Tiobe Index.

        https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/csharp/

        At its peak in January 2012, C# scored .. 8.763%
        In February 2017, C# had fallen to ......... 4.902% ▼
        In April 2017, C# had fallen further, to .... 3.579% ▼ but still #4
        In May 2017, C# had fallen further, to ..... 3.457% ▼ now fallen to #5

        C# is less popular now than it was in July 2005

        Source: Zagor Tenay. Thanks for bringing C#'s decline to everyone's attention.

      • Zagor TenayZagor Tenay commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        STACKOVERFLOW DEVELOPER SURVEY RESULTS

        MOST DREADED LANGUAGES: VB6 IS THE FIRST!!!!

        For the second year in a row, Visual Basic (for 2017, Visual Basic 6, specifically) ranked as the most dreaded language. Most dreaded means that a high percentage of developers who are currently using the technology express no interest in continuing to do so.

        Visual Basic 6

        88.3%

        VBA

        80.4%

        CoffeeScript

        79.2%.........FOR THE REST ==>https://stackoverflow.com/insights/survey/2017/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dev-survey-2017&utm_content=em-features&utm_source=so-owned

      • Zagor TenayZagor Tenay commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Since 2000s much has changed. Modular Enterprise Architectural paradigm had huge steps forward since the Drag/Drop/Bam days of VB6. Separation of Concerns became the main objective of serious professionals who develop real life, mission critical applications. And I am not talking about only C#. You must follow certain OOP guidelines, patterns in any modern language, if you need to create an application which can be maintained, easily modified and expanded. Visual Basic never was meant to create complex type applications. It was a toy and initially been created as a kind of office tool, similar to Excel, Word and Access to provide a bit more functionality and customization. Unfortunately it was abused by some using Windows API hooks to create monstrous, unmanageable spaghetti code.
        It was the best thing that Microsoft stopped VB6 and opened up a new era with .NET. VB6 was all wrong from the beginning (in terms of professional application development) and it has created in the 90s a rather dangerous ecosystem, where anyone would come up with a “Drag/Drop/Bam” code and throw it into the mixture. This soon became a nightmare. In real world, a surgeon has adequate education and years of experience before he is allowed to venture on a breathing and bleeding patience. Same should apply to software. Software should be and must be written by professionals who have adequate education (i.e. engineering) who have developed the scientific common sense and experience to do the right job which may be mission critical. Lives and fortunes may depend on a critical software. VB6 was never the tool for professional developers. It was a fun toy from the beginning and that was exactly the raison d'être. Just to entertain common folks, whether for their annual income tax calculations or to create some simple games. It was never intended to create huge Enterprise Applications. Unfortunately companies did misuse it and found themselves in an unrecoverable mess after a few years. The apps they developed were going nowhere, no one knew how to maintain them and a modification at one end would ***** up things all over. This type of code is called strongly coupled code and VB6 encouraged this type of programming. The industry had enough and .NET was born.

      • MamaMama commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Zagor Tenay

        no, it means that you don't understand that VB6 is faster than C++ and that Xojo is pure sh it !

      • Mickey WebbMickey Webb commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Erel

        Don't take anything the Idiot Child poster says seriously. He just likes to troll-post here.
        He/she is as likely to post in favor of any subject as he is to post against it.

        He has posted in favor of PowerBasic and against PowerBasic, in favor of Delphi and against Delphi, in favor of VB.Net and against VB.Net. That, together with his other nonsense posts, means most people here just laugh at him.

      • ErelErel commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        > Don't trade one garbage with another. Xojo is like B4J. Keep away from those nonsense platforms. These platforms are developed usually by one person or a small group and no one knows what to do when they disappear (Powerbasic example). The community and ecosystem is almost non-existent. Save you money.

        It is funny that you write it here as this is a request signed by 12k developers asking Microsoft not to kill VB6.
        Since we (Anywhere Software) started, Microsoft has killed:
        - Windows Mobile / Windows CE
        - Silverlight
        - Lightswitch
        - Windows Phone 7
        - Windows Phone or Mobile 8 / 10.
        - WPF / WinForms - Not killed but not updated anymore.
        - RoboVM (bought by Xamarin right before Microsoft has purchased it).
        - XNA
        - Probably others that I don't remember.

        Company size doesn't really matter here...

      • Richard CollierRichard Collier commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Zagor Tenay chooses three sources - Stack Overflow, Tiobe and PYPL - showing C#'s decline.

        All 3 of the sources show C-sharp declining. There is a reason for that. It is because C# is declining.

      • Richard CollierRichard Collier commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        The PYPL index shows (for India, US and Worldwide) C# is declining.

        PYPL says:-
        - "In India C# was at 9.3% in October 2014, and fell to 7.5% by April 2017."
        - US and worldwide results are similar.

        Source: Zagor Tenay - Thanks for highlighting this fact, many of us hadn't realized this before.

      • Richard CollierRichard Collier commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        The 2017 Stackoverflow survey says:-

        "In the five years we've been collecting the Developer Survey, we've seen languages such as Python and Node.js grow in popularity, while the usage of languages like C# and C has been shrinking."

        C# is in decline.

        Source: Zagor Tenay - Thanks for highlighting C#'s decline, many of us hadn't realized this before.

      • Richard CollierRichard Collier commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Why is C# in a 5 year decline ?

        C# has been falling since 2012. Now it has fallen to fifth place.

        https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/csharp/

        At its peak in January 2012, C# scored .. 8.763%
        In February 2017, C# had fallen to ......... 4.902% ▼
        In April 2017, C# had fallen further, to .... 3.579% ▼ but still #4
        In May 2017, C# had fallen further, to .... 3.457% ▼ now fallen to #5

        C# is less popular now than it was in July 2005

        Source: Zagor Tenay. Thanks for bringing that to everyone's attention.

      • Richard CollierRichard Collier commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Tiobe index of programming language popularity - C# has been declining for over 5 years.

        See the graph here: https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/csharp/

        Why does Microsoft's premier language which is constantly being updated by Microsoft, being promoted by Microsoft and its fanbois, being extended with products like Xamarin, and best of all is now given away FREE, just keep on declining in popularity ?

        Why is C# in a 5 year decline ?

        Source: Zagor Tenay - Thanks for highlighting this fact, many of us hadn't realized this before.

      • BlehBleh commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        just include it as an optional component to the OS free like powershell. its way better than powershell anyway. unsigned numbers and an x64 numeric type would be appreciated as well

      • MichaelEMichaelE commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Trolls never need facts. Part of what makes a troll a troll. Nonobjective polarization of a singular point of view.

        Multiple and diverse credible sources cannot be used by a troll as that would expose the truth.

      • FramatoFramato commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @mama

        The difference between me and you is that I do not say anything that can not be easily demonstrated. Instead of insinuating that I'm telling lies, downloading the sources that are attached to the post, analyzing (if you're competent), compile them and just after you can talk.

        I was also stunned by the results, but they are and anyone can check them ... they are not false numbers, I'm sorry that this shocks your brain

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