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    EugeneEugene shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

    We have read all of the comments on this thread and I’d like to thank you for providing your constructive feedback on this issue. Instead of merely repeating our support and migration guidance that has been laid out on http://msdn.com/vbrun, I’d like to address some of your specific comments here.

    To play back the feedback themes we’re hearing:
    - VB6 is awesome
    - VB6 needs to be brought forward and maintained: in a new release or OSS

    VB6 was and still is without a doubt awesome. VB6 made developers incredibly productive building a breadth of applications and as a result we have a wealth of applications and passionate developers to this day in 2014. One way I see our mission in developer tools is to empower developers to solve problems. This includes both today’s problems AND the problems of tomorrow. VB6, as you all have stated repeatedly in this thread, is an excellent tool for solving the problems of its day. We also stand behind our decision starting in 2002 to meet the current demands of our developers and the industry with .NET. For the scenarios VB6 set out to do, we see VB6 being “complete”. We feel good about VB6 being able to continue maintaining their applications for the past 15 years. Current needs ranging from distributed applications and services, to web applications and services, to devices, to new architectures and languages, required fundamental changes to the whole stack. We looked at how we could accommodate these needs through incremental changes to VB6 while maintaining its essence, and that was not possible.

    To address the modern needs we would need to go far beyond updating the language. We have to remember that VB6 is not just a language. VB6 is a language, a runtime, a platform library, a tool/IDE, and an ecosystem tightly packaged together in a way that made all of them work well together. We’ve worked with many customers on migration from VB6 to .NET and found that while yes, there are language changes, the dominating factor in migration difficulties isn’t the language differences. Even open sourcing the language/runtime wouldn’t solve the fact that VB6 was thought for a different set of problems, and the fact that its strength came from the end-to-end solution provided by all these five pieces working together. Take a change like 64bit, the complete runtime, tools and ecosystem chain would need to be retooled.

    So, moving forward what can we do? Where we have been able to help move forward is in our stance around support and interoperability. The VB6 runtime it is still a component of the Windows operating system and is a component shipped in Windows 8.1. It will be supported at least through 2024. This ensures your apps and components continue to run as you incrementally move forward to .NET. The support policy is here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/ms788708. There are numerous interop strategies that we developed and evolved to enable incremental migration as you upgrade your skills, described here: http://msdn.com/vbrun.

    In summary, VB6 was awesome. We agree. We don’t expect or demand anyone to throw away their code or rewrite from any of our technologies unless it makes business sense for them to do so. We have to innovate to enable our customers to innovate. It is not a viable option to create a next version of VB6. We stand by our decision to make VB.NET and the .NET Framework. We think they are awesome too. It is not feasible to open source VB6 tools chain and ecosystem. The VB6 runtime was last shipped in Windows 8.1 and will be supported for the lifetime of Windows 8.1. Support and interop are great tools to move forward incrementally.

    I hope you feel we’ve listened to your feedback and that I’ve explained things well enough that you understand our decision.

    Paul Yuknewicz
    Group Program Manager
    Microsoft Visual Studio Cloud Tools

    7661 comments

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      • Grant SwingerGrant Swinger commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        That's a made up figure pulled out of thin air, not a Microsoft one. The 6 million figure was made at the high-water mark of VB6 popularity before Java and then .NET began replacing it.

      • Microsoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programmingMicrosoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @kontex @We want VB6 programming

        >> "However, the biggest base of Microsoft developers isn't made up of Web developers; it consists of the 8 million Visual Basic (VB) 6.0 developers who haven't migrated to Visual Studio .NET in the numbers Microsoft hoped for."

        I'd be interested to see any figures showing 8 million VB6 users. Microsoft regularly claimed 6 million VB6 users. I've also seen Microsoft forecast 8 million and 8.1 million users, but I've never actually seen them claim they had reached 8 million.

      • MichaelEMichaelE commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        >> As expected, 'restructuring' means yet more layoffs at Microsoft with 'several' thousand jobs to go, including that of CIO Jim DuBois. Microsoft refuse to give exact numbers.

        Meanwhile they have created the legacy of one of the worlds easiest and most powerful software development tools in VB6. This is a responsibility born of countless users investing in it. In them!

        Events dont make entities they reveal them. Who they are that is. Years from now is Microsoft going to be known as a THE greed based techno-giant of the era or the one that lead in innovation and treated their most committed users respectfully.

        Its not too late. Microsoft give VB6 back to the community that built it or make the minimal investment to sustain it!

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @We want VB6 programming

        >> Microsoft should bring back VB6 programming.

        >> It would cost Microsoft nothing to allow a free download of the VB6 IDE.
        >> Upgrading VB6 to the same standard as VBA7 wouldn't be a large cost.
        >> Neither would open-sourcing VB6.
        >> Instead Microsoft have chosen to abandon their Visual Basic programming community.

        You are right. But M$ don't really care about developers any more. The future of all M$ development tools doesn't look promising.

      • Microsoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programmingMicrosoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @MichaelE

        As expected, 'restructuring' means yet more layoffs at Microsoft with 'several' thousand jobs to go, including that of CIO Jim DuBois. Microsoft refuse to give exact numbers.

        The aim now is to compete with Amazon.

        It seems "Mobile First" is dead, but "Cloud First" continues.

      • We want VB6 programmingWe want VB6 programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Microsoft should bring back VB6 programming.

        It would cost Microsoft nothing to allow a free download of the VB6 IDE.
        Upgrading VB6 to the same standard as VBA7 wouldn't be a large cost.
        Neither would open-sourcing VB6.
        Instead Microsoft have chosen to abandon their Visual Basic programming community.

      • Microsoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programmingMicrosoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @MichaelE

        'Restructuring' usually just means more layoffs.

        But usually they also state their intentions to be "more responsive" to their customer's needs.

        If they really were "more responsive" they would do something with VB6. It doesn't really matter whether that is to update it, to open source it, or to make it part of the OS. But they should do something.

      • MichaelEMichaelE commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        News reporting Microsoft about to restructure. I wonder if they could include Open Sourcing VB6 or making it part of the OS in this.

        God forbid they invest in the myriad users that want an easy tool to create apps with and upgrade VB6.

      • Microsoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programmingMicrosoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Paul

        >> "Alan (Cooper, the founder of Visual Basic) thinks the programming language has been the same for the past 40 years. They do the same thing and there is no difference between them"

        >> In many ways the 80's and 90's were they heyday of language development. C++, MATLAB, Objective-C, Perl, Python, Visual Basic, Ruby, Java, Delphi, JavaScript, PHP and many others were developed then.

        >> Many of these 'last millennium' languages are still the leaders today.

        >> With the slight exception of functional programming (which has had more academic success than commercial) there has been little advance this millennium. .Net was developed around the turn of the millennium as a clone of Java. Apple's Swift (effectively an update of the 80's Objective-C) is growing as is Google's Go, but otherwise this millennium's languages haven't taken the programming world by storm.

        >> Alan Cooper is correct, you can do the same thing in any language. Any claim otherwise is just a "my religion is better than your religion" argument.

        100% agree.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Microsoft should update or open source the VB6 programming language, IDE and controls. Who will choose to use Microsoft development tools knowing that Microsoft will abandon them ?

      • kontexkontex commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        8 million VB6 users?
        Where does this figure come from?
        Is there a binding source for this number?

      • We want VB6 programmingWe want VB6 programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Whether ardent .NET supporters want to face it or not, VB 6.0 has some advantages over VB.NET. VB 6.0 is simpler than VB.NET, so the hurdles to getting started and being productive with the language are low. VB 6.0's runtime requirements are featherweight compared to the more than 20MB .NET Framework, not to mention that the .NET IDE requires some real horsepower.

        "However, the biggest base of Microsoft developers isn't made up of Web developers; it consists of the 8 million Visual Basic (VB) 6.0 developers who haven't migrated to Visual Studio .NET in the numbers Microsoft hoped for."

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Microsoft’s Visual Basic has long been one of the world’s if not favorite, then certainly one of the most widely used languages, and it really put Microsoft at the center of the enterprise stage. From its first six iterations as a language for client-server application development to its rebirth as part of the .Net platform, Visual Basic has been the go-to tool for quick development of enterprise applications. That’s in part because of its massive library of user interface components, along with connectors to common databases and a component model that’s allowed third parties to build businesses on providing additional functionality.

        The switch to .Net as the foundation for Microsoft’s development strategy made sense for new languages like C#, but it meant changes to Visual Basic wherein code couldn’t easily migrate from the old Visual Basic to the new VB.Net.

        It was a challenging transition for developers, and Visual Basic began to lose mind share inside enterprise development—and inside Microsoft.

        http://www.infoworld.com/article/3167210/application-development/visual-basic-is-the-odd-man-out-in-the-new-net.html

      • Microsoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programmingMicrosoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        VB6 programming for the Windows Store

        How to distribute your existing Desktop Applications via Windows Store to Windows 10 PCs – including the new Windows 10 S configuration.

        You can package any desktop application such as: WPF, WinForms, MFC, VB6, etc.

        https://blogs.windows.com/buildingapps/2017/06/19/distribute-existing-desktop-applications-via-windows-store-windows-10-pcs-including-new-windows-10-s-configuration

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