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    EugeneEugene shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

    We have read all of the comments on this thread and I’d like to thank you for providing your constructive feedback on this issue. Instead of merely repeating our support and migration guidance that has been laid out on http://msdn.com/vbrun, I’d like to address some of your specific comments here.

    To play back the feedback themes we’re hearing:
    - VB6 is awesome
    - VB6 needs to be brought forward and maintained: in a new release or OSS

    VB6 was and still is without a doubt awesome. VB6 made developers incredibly productive building a breadth of applications and as a result we have a wealth of applications and passionate developers to this day in 2014. One way I see our mission in developer tools is to empower developers to solve problems. This includes both today’s problems AND the problems of tomorrow. VB6, as you all have stated repeatedly in this thread, is an excellent tool for solving the problems of its day. We also stand behind our decision starting in 2002 to meet the current demands of our developers and the industry with .NET. For the scenarios VB6 set out to do, we see VB6 being “complete”. We feel good about VB6 being able to continue maintaining their applications for the past 15 years. Current needs ranging from distributed applications and services, to web applications and services, to devices, to new architectures and languages, required fundamental changes to the whole stack. We looked at how we could accommodate these needs through incremental changes to VB6 while maintaining its essence, and that was not possible.

    To address the modern needs we would need to go far beyond updating the language. We have to remember that VB6 is not just a language. VB6 is a language, a runtime, a platform library, a tool/IDE, and an ecosystem tightly packaged together in a way that made all of them work well together. We’ve worked with many customers on migration from VB6 to .NET and found that while yes, there are language changes, the dominating factor in migration difficulties isn’t the language differences. Even open sourcing the language/runtime wouldn’t solve the fact that VB6 was thought for a different set of problems, and the fact that its strength came from the end-to-end solution provided by all these five pieces working together. Take a change like 64bit, the complete runtime, tools and ecosystem chain would need to be retooled.

    So, moving forward what can we do? Where we have been able to help move forward is in our stance around support and interoperability. The VB6 runtime it is still a component of the Windows operating system and is a component shipped in Windows 8.1. It will be supported at least through 2024. This ensures your apps and components continue to run as you incrementally move forward to .NET. The support policy is here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/ms788708. There are numerous interop strategies that we developed and evolved to enable incremental migration as you upgrade your skills, described here: http://msdn.com/vbrun.

    In summary, VB6 was awesome. We agree. We don’t expect or demand anyone to throw away their code or rewrite from any of our technologies unless it makes business sense for them to do so. We have to innovate to enable our customers to innovate. It is not a viable option to create a next version of VB6. We stand by our decision to make VB.NET and the .NET Framework. We think they are awesome too. It is not feasible to open source VB6 tools chain and ecosystem. The VB6 runtime was last shipped in Windows 8.1 and will be supported for the lifetime of Windows 8.1. Support and interop are great tools to move forward incrementally.

    I hope you feel we’ve listened to your feedback and that I’ve explained things well enough that you understand our decision.

    Paul Yuknewicz
    Group Program Manager
    Microsoft Visual Studio Cloud Tools

    8061 comments

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      • George TGeorge T commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        When you compare VB6 to the tangled mess of html/javascript, or to the ever changing versions of .NET you realize the advantage of simplicity.

        I think it strange that Microsoft support and update VBA programming in Microsoft Office, but at the same time refuse to do the same for VB6.

        # I support VB6 programming

      • George TGeorge T commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        To me, VB6 was an incredible leap forward at the time. That is why it is one of the most significant languages of all time. Of course a fool, even with a good tool, is still a fool. Anyone can write **** or gold in any language.

        But few development tools have ever matched the productivity of VB6.

        # I support VB6 programming

      • George TGeorge T commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I support VB6 programming.

        I suggest it is time we had a hashtag to add to our posts.

        I suggest the phrase.....

        # I support VB6 programming

      • GoogleGoogle commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        We did not forgot that you din't answer a simple question, namely what does the code below does ?

        You have seen this particular post 25 times. Just recognize, you are NOT a programmer !

        cmp byte [buffer+edi], 0x00
        jnz ffs
        add edi, 1
        cmp byte [buffer+edi], 0x08
        jnz ffs

        We all wait !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Don't forget, any, any VB6 programmer knows asm !

      • McdonaldMcdonald commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Nobody forgot that you din't answer a simple question, namely what does the code below does ?

        You have seen this particular post 25 times. Just recognize, you are NOT a programmer !

        cmp byte [buffer+edi], 0x00
        jnz ffs
        add edi, 1
        cmp byte [buffer+edi], 0x08
        jnz ffs

        We all wait !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Don't forget, any, any VB6 programmer knows asm !

      • McdonaldMcdonald commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        No one is going to use VB.NET software. If it didn't happen 15 years ago, it won't happen now.
        The rules that applied then apply now. Companies do not pay to rewrite all their applications in the VB.NET OLD and IRRELEVANT technology which does NOT function any longer.
        And VB.NET applications generally run slower while VB6 app's are faster than app's made in C# and C++. It makes no sense.
        Only a developer living in an idealistic fantasy world thinks that and asked to support VB.NET.
        Some posters here have no knowledge or experience to understand why legacy applications SHOULD simply get rewritten in the latest and coolest technology, like VB6+codebase. There are fundamental reasons why everyone is still talking about NET.
        Idealistic and simplistic notions of how organizations operate will not change that.

      • McdonaldMcdonald commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        One of the big advantages of VB6 programming was that you could do things quicker, easier and cleaner using VB6 COM than you could in VB.NET.
        VB.NET is low, complex and convoluted rather than quick, easy and clean.
        Even all the "improvements" done to VB.NET over the years have never addressed this.
        Now VB.NET is losing popularity. It is non-existing in the world programming community !

      • McdonaldMcdonald commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        The rise and fall of .NET
        VB.NET has declined significantly. It's popularity has fallen back UNBELIEVABLY. VB.NET has steadily declined in popularity since it's peak in 2002.
        Development is moving away from the bloated VB.NET Spaghetti framework. It is really not even just legacy now. Looking at the graph VB.NET has around 1-2 years left while VB6 has 10 years assured. It looks like VB.NET will be dead by 2019/2020.
        Time for VB.NET users to move to VB6 and force MS to put a VB6 on the market.

      • Crugar MCrugar M commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Windows has many tools by default like Paint or Notepad. What is missing in the tool arsenal is a programming language. Visual Basic 6.0 seems to be extraordinarily well suited since is particularly powerful, fast and with millions of programmers.

        In the community, it was concluded that Microsoft may not have powerful specialists on the programming languages side like they had in the 90's and that would be one of the reasons why they can not make a new Visual Basic 6.X version.

        Another reason in the community gossip would be that they no longer have the source code of the Visual Basic 6.0 programming language probably due to data corruption.

        The list of suspicions is long as Microsoft tried to break the support for VB6 in 2008, but they could not do that because of the masses of programmers who have resisted.

        Another false information would be that VB6 programmers do not want to go to other languages, but as far as I know personally, VB6 programmers know a very wide range of languages, especially C++, Java, PHP and ASM.

        The support for VB6 is now guaranteed by Microsoft until 2027. So it will survive longer than most of the programming packages released right now.

        I think such an idea would be very constructive for Windows 10 and future variants. I wish to ask you what you think of a Visual Basic 6.0 by default on Windows ?

      • Crugar MCrugar M commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        The creation of a tool like VB.NET was a very good lesson for the programming community and taught the programming world a good lesson that nobody should produce anything such as VB.NET and the .NET framework in the future. The reasons may be listed as follows:
        1- VB.NET was a "patch-up" tool from the beginning. The VB.NET developers at Microsoft were trying to make everybody happy by adding patches here and there, sometimes quite in unorthodox ways. There has never been a top to bottom approach from the beginning. The big picture of the forest was never there. When someone wanted something new, they were planting some more exotic trees into that forest which become slowly but surely an uncontrollable ecosystem, namely a jungle. When they have created VB.NET, it was that moment, I believe, that things start getting out of control. There were so many unorthodox, unconventional hacks into the heart of windows APIs, that the VB.NET ecosystem started cracking and the collapse would have been imminent, ETC...
        2-The other factor that the VB.NET and C# ecosystem was doomed to fail sooner or later, was the fact that the entire windows structure was exposed to programmers through API hooks in dangerous ways. It was an unmanaged way of reaching to the heart of windows which could only worsen the entire operating system. There were OCX and third party vendors, which have mushroomed almost overnight,quite uncontrollable and able to do all kind of hacks without giving any thought about the consequences. Big companies producing important, mission critical code and informed programmers with vision could see that VB.NET was sinking in it's own weight. Maintainability, expandability, creating standard coding practices was impossible. It was a dead end. That's why they were more than willing to jump back on the managed ecosystem that we call VB6.X today.
        So in short, it was a huge necessity to get rid of a flawed tool called VB ecosystem and design something properly engineered, which would live a long and healthy life.

        by
        Anonymous

      • MeganMegan commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Robert McHugh commented

        I don't know who "Anonymous" is, but you virtually have no clue what you are talking about. Anyone involved in software development who understand the phases of development starting from the Business specifications, Technical specifications on through to the end maintenance support knows you use the right tool for the right job. To make the claim that no commercial product is written in VB is not only a moronic statement, it means you must know ALL of the products on the market, which you don't. Most of the products I have worked on are comprised of multiple development platforms - using the ones that are most efficient or cost effective for that phase of the project, I.E.: Interfacing to third party database back-end so as not to re-invent the wheel. Many projects start out in one language and are scraped and re-written in another after the proof of concept phase, since it is more cost effective to integrate third party products and usually reduces the development time. As far as garbage code - that's pretty much up to the restrictions and rules implemented by the company for how they want their code written, and as far as MY background - it's 30+ years with roughly 30+ languages including multiple versions of different assembly languages and processors, both in primary use and embedded systems. The number of Operating systems alone in staggering, and most don't exist anymore. You sound like an idiot making absolute comments about these things. You can be the best programmer in the world, and STILL not be a competent Developer, since to be that you must know the areas you are working in at an expert level. So to argue about the "best" language just shows your level of ineptness...

      • MeganMegan commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Why was vb.net deserted?

        There are many reasons but I would like to present major ones.
        -vb.net was/is full of bugs. VB6 has NO bugs.
        -VB.NET could not do multi threading but VB6 can do that. .NET was/is a very complicated, bloated platform for not so professional users.
        -VB.NET was easy to hack. VB6 is impossible to hack. Programs written with C# were not safe (buffer overflow problems).
        -VB.NET was not maintainable. It was not Object Oriented, which is a big no in today's modern computing requirement
        etc.etc.etc.

      • MeganMegan commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Martin Phillips says

        I think you people have to realise that .NET is dead and it's not coming back.
        Microsoft has no reason to bring it back.
        Most of the people who learnt VB. NET are now too old to coding professionally. VB6 has new programmers each day.
        The coding world has moved on with VB6 and Java and those it left behind were left behind because they were not intellectually capable to realize the pardigm.
        I and many others were, however, capable of adapting VB6 to this change. We use VB6 and love it!
        So I'm sorry for you people who are unable to evolve - such is the nature of life. Only the strong survive. You just have to deal with that.
        VB.NET is dead and it's NEVER coming back!

      • MichaelMichelMichaelMichel commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Having used both VB6 and NET I can tell you that VB.NET is not suitable for LOB windows applications. I remember having designed complex code in the 90s and early 2000s and it was almost impossible to unit test those complex applications, not to mention the maintainability and expandability aspects. That's the reason why most of the big businesses were happy to remain to VB6 since very early on. It doesn't mean that all software is complex and requires solid principles to separate UI and business model. However for big businesses and their mission critical software this is vital as they want to keep their codebase maintainable and expandable. VB6 is the best choice for windows to do this. Ask any professional software developer and you will see that VB6 is the most popular. It is an almost complete framework with huge user community and VB6 programmers are highly in demand (and very, very well paid). There is no sign that VB6 will go extinct any time soon (supported until 2027). It pleases professional business software developers immensely. Yes there are other software that you can use for mission specific purposes. For instance ADA is a very old language that is widely used in aerospace and aviation due to it's many fail-safe features. Obviously,using VB6 wouldn't be practical in such a case. Similarly, Python is embraced by the scientific community for similar reasons. Currently VB.NET has really no such area, in which it would be the best choice. There are many other modern languages, equally easy to learn and targeting RAD type of environments. That is the reason why Microsoft does not pursue it any longer. Regards

      • MichaelMichelMichaelMichel commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @zagor alias Anonymous and another 100 nicknames

        THIS IS YOUR ANSWER, LOOK DOWN, IS POSTED 16 TIMES NOW:

        What annoys you is that in VB6 you find everything for free in source code without paying between $ 10 and $ 200$ per app. ;) The most advanced code is free do to Visual Basic 6.0 !

        This message is for the rest of the community as I do not bother to impress you even with a spi|

        1- Regarding VB6 and Tiobe:
        https://vb6awards.blogspot.com/2017/01/tiobe-is-for-sale-pay-tiobe-index-and.html
        https://vb6awards.blogspot.com/2016/04/tiobe-index-without-verticality-or.html
        https://vb6awards.blogspot.com/2016/04/the-pathetic-tiobe-index.html
        https://vb6awards.blogspot.com/2014/05/tiobe-index-for-may-2014-visual-basic.html
        https://vb6awards.blogspot.com/2014/05/tiobe-index-for-may-2014-visual-basic.html

        2- Stackoverflow is full of tro||s that cannot deal with programming! They are people just like you which I can count them on my fingers. Here are the answers:
        https://vb6awards.blogspot.com/2014/01/best-programming-language-in-world-in.html
        https://vb6awards.blogspot.com/2016/02/visual-basic-wins-technical-impact.html
        https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/710181/Visual-Basic-A-giant-more-powerful-than-ever

        3 - I've already told you that Malwarebytes is done in VB6. You do not know how to read ?

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        The rise and fall of VB6
        VB6 has declined significantly. It's popularity has fallen back UNBELIEVABLY. VB6 has steadily declined in popularity since it's peak in 2002.
        Development is moving away from the bloated VB6 Spaghetti framework. It is really just legacy now. Looking at the graph VB6 has around 4 years left. It looks like VB6 will be dead by 2019/2020.
        Time for VB6 users to move to NET.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        One of the big advantages of NET programming was that you could do things quicker, easier and cleaner using NET than you could in VB6.
        VB6 is low, complex and convoluted rather than quick, easy and clean.
        Even all the "improvements" done to VB6 over the years have never addressed this.
        Now VB6 is losing popularity.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        No one is going to use VB6 software. If it didn't happen 15 years ago, it won't happen now.
        The rules that applied then apply now. Companies do not pay to rewrite all their applications in the OLD and IRRELEVANT technology which does NOT function any longer.
        And VB6 applications generally run slower. It makes no sense.
        Only a developer living in an idealistic fantasy world thinks that and asked to bring back VB6.
        Some posters here have no knowledge or experience to understand why legacy applications SHOULD simply get rewritten in the latest and coolest technology, like NET. There are fundamental reasons why everyone is still talking about NET.
        Idealistic and simplistic notions of how organizations operate will not change that.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Travolta

        >> VB6 is the best language ever made by Microsoft, Zagor is a fan that uses revers psychology.

        I think you are right. Zagor used to praise C#.
        Now he denies he has ever used it.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Anonymous now pretends he uses C++.

        At least he is getting better, he used to pretend he used C#

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