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    EugeneEugene shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

    We have read all of the comments on this thread and I’d like to thank you for providing your constructive feedback on this issue. Instead of merely repeating our support and migration guidance that has been laid out on http://msdn.com/vbrun, I’d like to address some of your specific comments here.

    To play back the feedback themes we’re hearing:
    - VB6 is awesome
    - VB6 needs to be brought forward and maintained: in a new release or OSS

    VB6 was and still is without a doubt awesome. VB6 made developers incredibly productive building a breadth of applications and as a result we have a wealth of applications and passionate developers to this day in 2014. One way I see our mission in developer tools is to empower developers to solve problems. This includes both today’s problems AND the problems of tomorrow. VB6, as you all have stated repeatedly in this thread, is an excellent tool for solving the problems of its day. We also stand behind our decision starting in 2002 to meet the current demands of our developers and the industry with .NET. For the scenarios VB6 set out to do, we see VB6 being “complete”. We feel good about VB6 being able to continue maintaining their applications for the past 15 years. Current needs ranging from distributed applications and services, to web applications and services, to devices, to new architectures and languages, required fundamental changes to the whole stack. We looked at how we could accommodate these needs through incremental changes to VB6 while maintaining its essence, and that was not possible.

    To address the modern needs we would need to go far beyond updating the language. We have to remember that VB6 is not just a language. VB6 is a language, a runtime, a platform library, a tool/IDE, and an ecosystem tightly packaged together in a way that made all of them work well together. We’ve worked with many customers on migration from VB6 to .NET and found that while yes, there are language changes, the dominating factor in migration difficulties isn’t the language differences. Even open sourcing the language/runtime wouldn’t solve the fact that VB6 was thought for a different set of problems, and the fact that its strength came from the end-to-end solution provided by all these five pieces working together. Take a change like 64bit, the complete runtime, tools and ecosystem chain would need to be retooled.

    So, moving forward what can we do? Where we have been able to help move forward is in our stance around support and interoperability. The VB6 runtime it is still a component of the Windows operating system and is a component shipped in Windows 8.1. It will be supported at least through 2024. This ensures your apps and components continue to run as you incrementally move forward to .NET. The support policy is here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/ms788708. There are numerous interop strategies that we developed and evolved to enable incremental migration as you upgrade your skills, described here: http://msdn.com/vbrun.

    In summary, VB6 was awesome. We agree. We don’t expect or demand anyone to throw away their code or rewrite from any of our technologies unless it makes business sense for them to do so. We have to innovate to enable our customers to innovate. It is not a viable option to create a next version of VB6. We stand by our decision to make VB.NET and the .NET Framework. We think they are awesome too. It is not feasible to open source VB6 tools chain and ecosystem. The VB6 runtime was last shipped in Windows 8.1 and will be supported for the lifetime of Windows 8.1. Support and interop are great tools to move forward incrementally.

    I hope you feel we’ve listened to your feedback and that I’ve explained things well enough that you understand our decision.

    Paul Yuknewicz
    Group Program Manager
    Microsoft Visual Studio Cloud Tools

    7635 comments

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      • Alan HughesAlan Hughes commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        > This is what I thought. From your writings here I suspect that you still live in the 90s and missed out the new paradigm of modern programming.

        > Here I don’t remember you writing anything credible in terms of new methodologies and technologies of computer engineering.

        > It only shows that you are really not aware of what modern languages (like .NET) are all about.

        then

        "I am not here to insult you or anyone for that matter." IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE IT !!!

      • Alan HughesAlan Hughes commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        No details of any software experience (if any).
        No details of any articles written.
        And claiming "privacy" concerns even though he has founded his own company.

        As I said, a lying fantasist.

      • Zagor TenayZagor Tenay commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @MichaelE

        I am sure you know what you are doing within your field of expertise. I am not here to insult you or anyone for that matter. On contrary, I admire people who contribute things to society and common good, especially at higher level of learning. I don't doubt your publications and articles (kudos to you).

        My point is a point of approach. I guess we may be in disagreement with that approach, namely the paradigm of composite application development. It is a very deep subject and I would rather write about it in my own blogs. From all the discussions up to now, one thing I couldn’t comprehend was that in some of your posts you left the impression that you were favoring VB6 to .NET for complex code development. I completely disagree with this, as it is simply not true. I cannot stand people posting the virtues of a much primitive framework and making false and unfounded assertions (you may call it lies) in order to meet their own greedy ends. Just for that principle I will keep on posting here as long as it takes.

        In regards to my professional background. I am a professional engineer graduated from a reputable university with an MBA degree on top of that. I have worked in aerospace industries in all continents for many years and involved on high end, mission critical software certification of avionics systems with FAA, JAA and civil aviation authorities. I have worked with major aerospace industries, Boeing and Lockheed to name a few as a contract engineer. I am experienced in complex system design/certification and complex software driven modern airspace systems. I worked along with project management teams and know what modularity means from top to bottom. Later I have founded my own company and switched to strict software design which was my passion since the beginning. Currently with my team, we are developing a highly unique Enterprise Application. It will be marketed globally.

        Sorry I cannot provide you more than that due privacy concerns. For the rest, it is up to you to believe or not.

      • MichaelEMichaelE commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        >> >This is what I thought. From your writings here I suspect that you still live in the 90s and missed out the new paradigm of modern programming.

        I'll take it on good faith that you have not read any of my writings on the latest programming methods and paradigms using the latest computer languages and environments.

        Go check them out and we can compare notes. My latest writings cover Oracle 12c stretch RAC and multitenant data access methods.

        EDIT: Those writings are based on my findings in real world data access of terabytes for data. I collaborated with industry experts on the given topics to ensure accuracy of my writings. If you have better methods please share them.

      • MichaelEMichaelE commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Zagor I knew in choosing to respond to your post I opened myself up to criticism. I posted my info in good faith. BTW, my words were not meant to impress you. Just provide _verifiable_ facts as to the level of Enterprise technologies that I work with.

        @Zagor its your turn. Who would want to give any credibility to someone hiding behind shade account. @Zagor maybe you have real world experience. If that is the case great I could learn a lot from you. @Zagor what is your linkedin name and\or website?

        I'll go ahead and promise not to criticize you for posting but instead embrace your experience as an industry peer.

      • Alan HughesAlan Hughes commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @MichaelE

        As I said, you are an optimist if you expect a sensible reply from Zagor Tenay.

        He is a proven liar, a troll, and a fantasist.

      • Zagor TenayZagor Tenay commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @MichaelE

        “in the IT industry since the 90's”
        >This is what I thought. From your writings here I suspect that you still live in the 90s and missed out the new paradigm of modern programming.
        “I have also written articles on .Net”
        >Give me reference (URL). I would like to read what you have to say about .NET.
        “Oracle 12c Quickstart”
        >Knowing Oracle doesn’t mean that you understand modern programming. It is just a database, a CRUD. Here I don’t remember you writing anything credible in terms of new methodologies and technologies of computer engineering.
        “YES I have worked with .Net. I like it!”
        >At least you like it (as opposed to others here constantly bashing it). The question is not if you worked with it. The question is how you have worked with it. For instance have you been involved in Enterprise Application developments, team developments, project management of EA etc. Someone talking of VB6 as a “drag-drop-bam” programming (remember?) for complex code development, does honestly not inspire too much respect in me (speaking strictly in terms of professionalism). It only shows that you are really not aware of what modern languages (like .NET) are all about. As someone said, coding is not about typing, it is about thinking.
        “ISILON (hundreds of terabytes of storage via SAN), stretch multi-city high speed networks etc.”
        >Quite irrelevant information. Without any substance, terms like terabytes, multi-city high speed do not impress me.
        “I am constantly learning and devouring new languages and technologies”
        >Good for you. But you should also work on to understand the essence of modern paradigm of software development. I think it is much more important to get the hang of it, rather than trying to learn other languages on end. A language is just a syntax, nothing more, like the cement of a building. To use it in a way to create a modular application which is highly expandable and maintainable is a whole different story. It is almost an art form. And you can do this with many modern languages but definitely not with VB6.
        “I use VB6 on occasion to quickly knock out something because nothing I have come across can create rock solid apps more quickly.”
        >That is the problem and reveals a lot about you. Why would anyone use a VB6 snippet and throw into an EA just because it makes you feel good. This type of approach is completely unprofessional and utterly contradicts the philosophy of robust code writing and separation of concerns (SoC). You can simply not do that. As soon as you do that you will almost certainly introduce unmanaged dependencies and strong coupling. I would never hire anyone if he/she tells me that in an interview.

      • MichaelEMichaelE commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Alan thanks sir.

        I try to hold people to their highest potential. If they still choose to troll, post lies and insult industry colleges so be it. Alan we'll see! :-)

      • Alan HughesAlan Hughes commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @MichaelE

        You are an optimist if you expect a sensible reply from Zagor Tenay. He is a proven liar, a troll, and a fantasist.

      • MichaelEMichaelE commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Zagor by request:

        I have been working in the IT industry since the 90's. I am Microsoft, Oracle and ITIL certified. Most recently I have been working in the DOD and now Finance industries with Oracle as an Enterprise DBA.

        YES I have worked with .Net. I like it! I have also written articles on .Net along with publishing several books most recently: "Oracle 12c Quickstart" (ISBN: 9781310896545). I have created and published IT books directly for Oracle, Air Force and others. Some are on Amazon.

        I own and maintain oracledba.help. From there you can look up linkedin and other references. I am a real person in here (not using a shade account). Thats good and bad. I am a great target for spam\trollers but on the other hand I have integrity and can backup what I say.

        These days I mainly use Python, PHP, BASH, .Net and yes...VB6. I am constantly learning and devouring new languages and technologies. I assimulate them. Test their worthiness in HUGE enterprise environments such as VBLOCK (AKA enterprise vmware environments), ISILON (hundreds of terabytes of storage via SAN), stretch multi-city high speed networks etc, then share what I found to make it easier for people to get up-to-speed on the new technologies.

        I use VB6 on occasion to quickly knock out something because nothing I have come across can create rock solid apps more quickly.

      • Microsoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programmingMicrosoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        In an epic marketing fail, Microsoft only persuaded 1 in 3 of their customers to move from VB6 to .Net.
        The others either stayed with VB6 programming or moved to non-Microsoft languages.

        Microsoft made the single worst strategic mistake that any software company can make: They decided to rewrite their software from scratch, abandoning what was the market leader to replace it with one that became the "New Coke" of software.

        Yet just think how different it would have been if Microsoft had offered a non-managed VB6 together with a managed C# - they would have retained their VB6 base and had far greater coverage of the market.

        Both C# and VB6 would have benefited from such an approach, however Microsoft split there own market and lost a large proportion of their developers.

        VB6 programming is supported on Windows 10, Windows Server 2016 and earlier versions of Windows.
        VBA programming is supported on Office 2016 and earlier versions of Office.
        VBScript programming is still part of Windows

      • Microsoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programmingMicrosoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Now that Microsoft have announced that VB.Net will no longer be developed to the same extent that C# is, it is only a matter of time before VB.Net is abandoned.

        Microsoft support VB6 for the lifetime of Windows 10, so until at least 2025.
        https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/visual-basic/reference/vb6-support

        VB6 programming is supported on Windows 10, Windows Server 2016 and earlier versions of Windows.
        VBA programming is supported on Office 2016 and earlier versions of Office.
        VBScript programming is still part of Windows.

      • Microsoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programmingMicrosoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Anthony D. Green of Microsoft's Visual Basic Team says (05/24/2016) :-

        "As for the product, VB6 applications are not being “dumped”. Per our support statement here: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/articles/visual-basic/reference/vb6-support we remain committed to “it just works” compatibility for existing VB6 applications through 2025."

        VB6 programming is supported on Windows 10, Windows Server 2016 and earlier versions of Windows.
        VBA programming is supported on Office 2016 and earlier versions of Office.
        VBScript programming is still part of Windows.

      • Microsoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programmingMicrosoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        >> NSBasic creates Web/Hybrid apps.

        See also https://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio-ide/suggestions/12363366-vb6-programming-waking-a-sleeping-giant-msdn-ma

        VB6 programming is supported on Windows 10, Windows Server 2016 and earlier versions of Windows.
        VBA programming is supported on Office 2016 and earlier versions of Office.
        VBScript programming is still part of Windows.

      • Microsoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programmingMicrosoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Microsoft have announced support of VB6 on Windows Server 2016. VB6 is supported until at least November 2027 on Windows Server 2016, and until at least 2025 on Windows 10. Both are likely to be extended.

        Support Statement for Visual Basic 6.0 on Windows Vista, Windows Server 2008, Windows 7, Windows 8 and Windows 8.1, Windows Server 2012, Windows 10, and Windows Server 2016
        https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/articles/visual-basic/reference/vb6-support

        VB6 programming is supported on Windows 10, Windows Server 2016 and earlier versions of Windows.
        VBA programming is supported on Office 2016 and earlier versions of Office.
        VBScript programming is still part of Windows.

      • Microsoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programmingMicrosoft, update VB6 programming & VBA programming commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Microsoft have demoed Windows 10 on ARM video at Build 2017.

        http://www.pcmag.com/news/353637/windows-10-on-arm-runs-all-win32-apps-unmodified

        An ARM tablet/laptop/PC running Windows 10 can be treated just like any other PC. That means any Win32 application can be downloaded, installed, and run unmodified and as if you're on an x86 machine.
        Windows 10 on ARM translates all the x86 instructions to ARM64 at runtime so as the user gets the exact same experience regardless of what their base hardware is. Those translations are also cached, meaning over time all the applications you use regularly will improve in performance. The example Microsoft uses in the video above is 7-Zip, which is downloaded from the web and installed.

        VB6 apps will run on ARM and the VB6 programming IDE will run also.

        VB6 programming is supported on Windows 10, Windows Server 2016 and earlier versions of Windows.
        VBA programming is supported on Office 2016 and earlier versions of Office.
        VBScript programming is still part of Windows.

      • VB6 UserVB6 User commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Zagor Tenay

        "I have downloaded and tested Xojo and VB6 from this"

        No you haven't, you are fantasizing again. Loser.

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