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    Eugene shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

    We have read all of the comments on this thread and I’d like to thank you for providing your constructive feedback on this issue. Instead of merely repeating our support and migration guidance that has been laid out on http://msdn.com/vbrun, I’d like to address some of your specific comments here.

    To play back the feedback themes we’re hearing:
    - VB6 is awesome
    - VB6 needs to be brought forward and maintained: in a new release or OSS

    VB6 was and still is without a doubt awesome. VB6 made developers incredibly productive building a breadth of applications and as a result we have a wealth of applications and passionate developers to this day in 2014. One way I see our mission in developer tools is to empower developers to solve problems. This includes both today’s problems AND the problems of tomorrow. VB6, as you all have stated repeatedly in this thread, is an excellent tool for solving the problems of its day. We also stand behind our decision starting in 2002 to meet the current demands of our developers and the industry with .NET. For the scenarios VB6 set out to do, we see VB6 being “complete”. We feel good about VB6 being able to continue maintaining their applications for the past 15 years. Current needs ranging from distributed applications and services, to web applications and services, to devices, to new architectures and languages, required fundamental changes to the whole stack. We looked at how we could accommodate these needs through incremental changes to VB6 while maintaining its essence, and that was not possible.

    To address the modern needs we would need to go far beyond updating the language. We have to remember that VB6 is not just a language. VB6 is a language, a runtime, a platform library, a tool/IDE, and an ecosystem tightly packaged together in a way that made all of them work well together. We’ve worked with many customers on migration from VB6 to .NET and found that while yes, there are language changes, the dominating factor in migration difficulties isn’t the language differences. Even open sourcing the language/runtime wouldn’t solve the fact that VB6 was thought for a different set of problems, and the fact that its strength came from the end-to-end solution provided by all these five pieces working together. Take a change like 64bit, the complete runtime, tools and ecosystem chain would need to be retooled.

    So, moving forward what can we do? Where we have been able to help move forward is in our stance around support and interoperability. The VB6 runtime it is still a component of the Windows operating system and is a component shipped in Windows 8.1. It will be supported at least through 2024. This ensures your apps and components continue to run as you incrementally move forward to .NET. The support policy is here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/ms788708. There are numerous interop strategies that we developed and evolved to enable incremental migration as you upgrade your skills, described here: http://msdn.com/vbrun.

    In summary, VB6 was awesome. We agree. We don’t expect or demand anyone to throw away their code or rewrite from any of our technologies unless it makes business sense for them to do so. We have to innovate to enable our customers to innovate. It is not a viable option to create a next version of VB6. We stand by our decision to make VB.NET and the .NET Framework. We think they are awesome too. It is not feasible to open source VB6 tools chain and ecosystem. The VB6 runtime was last shipped in Windows 8.1 and will be supported for the lifetime of Windows 8.1. Support and interop are great tools to move forward incrementally.

    I hope you feel we’ve listened to your feedback and that I’ve explained things well enough that you understand our decision.

    Paul Yuknewicz
    Group Program Manager
    Microsoft Visual Studio Cloud Tools

    8820 comments

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      • martin rizal commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @SuperDre although the React OS is still alpha stage, we can help them by reporting the bugs or funding them, contribute, and get involve on developing React OS. The greater the number of developers. The shorter time of development it is. By the way running VB6 apps on WINE? Yes it runs on WINE.

        http://www.kegel.com/wine/vb/
        https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=130

      • martin rizal commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @mcoder14 you are not a developer. You never realize the value of a software developement tools, There is a high risk of bugs when porting an existing application to another platform and revising application as well. You are a ***** of MS.

        You said you need invest years of expertise and total dead end and waste of time/energy, well think again there are more than a thousands of developers across the globe more than the number of developers in the microsoft. They have a potential to develop an alternative to VB6 in shorter time.

        Ease of application development is one major attraction of using an Operating System. Just like android, they also use BASIC language so many developers are now switching to android. In Windows VB6 was reason why the developers use Windows as their OS.

        You never realize that the Operating System must not user-friendly only but developer friendly as well.

      • Sten2005 - Microsoft support VB6 programming on Windows 10 until at least 2025 commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate
      • Sten2005 - Microsoft support VB6 programming on Windows 10 until at least 2025 commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate
      • SuperDre commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Mcoder14: I guess the 14 in your name stands for your age, as your comment is certainly one NOT from a professional developer.. A professional developer knows the real value of software and is not blinded by the latest hipster language/framework..
        Yes even I say you really shouldn't start a new big project in VB6, but that doesn't mean VB6 should be extinct...
        To me C# is actually more of a toy, as you don't really have to be a real developer anymore, you just string some (ill-designed) stuff together and it'll run.. But I'm not saying you shouldn't use C# (at the moment it's propably your best shot as demand is high and growing)..
        To me it's clear you aren't a real professional developer who has ever written a very big project for business clients which needed to run for years.. I always say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it...
        But then again, I have yet to anything .NET can do what you cannot do with VB6..

      • SuperDre commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Winston potgieter: if there is a company I would stay away from completely it's Apple... Also it's not really fair to compare Apple junk to MS junk, as MS has to support like a gazillion more different configurations, wereas apple only has to support a few configurations and they even don't support much older hardware they released themselves...

        @Anonymous:
        -Macintosh itself was a rip from Xerox...
        -Sybase made a deal with MS and then SQL Server was started..

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Microsoft will steal this 'Swift' idea too and come up with some lame watered down flavor of .NET

        Do they ever invent anything new, without stealing someone else's idea? Let's see...

        Windows: Macintosh rip
        Excel: Lotus 1-2-3 rip
        Word: Word Perfect rip
        Access: dbase rip
        IE: Netscape Navigator rip
        Powerpoint: Harvard Graphics rip
        .NET: Java rip
        SQL Server: Sybase rip
        Space Simulator...hmmm. Awesome software, this one's unique.

      • axisdj commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        OH NO!!!

        Taking some of the concepts of KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!!!!

        APPLE releases 'swift'

        https://developer.apple.com/swift/

        Strange they did not create some huge non-native verbose library, they are going back to simple

        But Apple MUST be wrong, right Paul???

      • axisdj commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @mcoder14,

        Show us you have credibility. From what you have written I think you have NO CLUE, but I could be wrong. I Guess we used this TOY to run so many systems " power plants / robotic control / radio automation /intelligent lighting control / physics formula simulations / large company accounting systems and much more"

        1. Privately show me what projects you work on

        2. Show me how you migrated your LARGE project from vb6 and made it better.

        3. Show me that you are not just an employee, but someone who is an owner or works for a small company.

        you can email your projects to : axisdj@world-net.net, I will keep them private and come back to this forum and let people know I am wrong if you have done anything but business apps!

      • axisdj commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I have made it a point to ask anyone who talks smack about vb6 or non PURE-OOP design.

        1. Privately show me what projects you work on

        2. Show me how you migrated your project from vb6 and made it better.

        3. Show me that you are not just an employee, but someone who is an owner or works for a small company.

        Otherwise your opinion does not really apply to me.

        So far I have found no-one that meets that criteria.

        Let me explain:

        1. "Privately show me what projects you work on" if it is just a database app, sure that can be done in anything.. if its not controlling real time robotic hardware, it's different! If you talk smack and don't deliver you have no credibility.

        2."show me how you migrated your project from vb6 and made it better". pretty simple...

        3. "show me that you are not just an employee, but someone who is an owner or works for a small company" - sure if you are an employee you are not as critical of extra time spent creating objects to pass for just one property, the more time you spend creating a 'PURE' design the more you get paid.... but when you are a small business owner wasting time is unacceptable.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Peter Kibble

        What proportion of your income comes from software written in vb6?

        I'm pretty certain i know the answer to that (sfa) and if I'm right what exactly is your interest in this thread?

      • Richard commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I have been using VB.Net, C# and WPF (vomit) for the last 14 years and oh how I fondly remember such simple times when I could deliver a working program in days not weeks.

        I used to back Microsoft now I loathe them driven by the vocal minority. Pull your head firmly out of your ***. People & business want quick cheap development simple. Not long winded difficult BS I just spend two hours building a firkin InputBox!!!! Go figure....that's progress.

      • Carlos Rocha commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Starting with 64-bit, unicode aware controls, and an "inherit from" along with "Implements" would make classic VB a "must have" for every developer.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Folks, why not simply use MS Access as a replacement to VB6?

        Pros:
        -uses VBA which is virtually identical to VB6 code
        -64 bit
        -full Unicode support
        -built-in report engine, no need for clunky 3rd party tools like Crystal et. al.

        Some simple NSIS scripting could bundle the runtime into an installer that would make the app run tantamount to a standalone "exe"

        Cons:
        -Access is buggy as an ActiveX contaier
        -can't write custom controls, but borderless forms can be made to mimic custom controls (I've had success doing this)
        -can't create DLL or ActiveX servers

        I don't think these Cons are showstoppers. Access makes a good candidate for a sophisticated standalone application.

      • axisdj commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        I am in the process of starting a KickStarter Project to produce a replacement for vb6.

        If there is anyone out there that has the technical expertise to accomplish this please contact me.

        We would need to get a plan together to make this happen. My intention is whoever works on the project will get paid for their time, but they have to be efficient and an expert.

        I have one person in mind... vbRichClient, but not sure if he is willing or able. I really think this is our only option, Imagine a third party vb6 Replacement. Would you contribute funds or expertise?

        email me: axisdj@world-net.net

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