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    Eugene shared this idea  ·   ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

    We have read all of the comments on this thread and I’d like to thank you for providing your constructive feedback on this issue. Instead of merely repeating our support and migration guidance that has been laid out on http://msdn.com/vbrun, I’d like to address some of your specific comments here.

    To play back the feedback themes we’re hearing:
    - VB6 is awesome
    - VB6 needs to be brought forward and maintained: in a new release or OSS

    VB6 was and still is without a doubt awesome. VB6 made developers incredibly productive building a breadth of applications and as a result we have a wealth of applications and passionate developers to this day in 2014. One way I see our mission in developer tools is to empower developers to solve problems. This includes both today’s problems AND the problems of tomorrow. VB6, as you all have stated repeatedly in this thread, is an excellent tool for solving the problems of its day. We also stand behind our decision starting in 2002 to meet the current demands of our developers and the industry with .NET. For the scenarios VB6 set out to do, we see VB6 being “complete”. We feel good about VB6 being able to continue maintaining their applications for the past 15 years. Current needs ranging from distributed applications and services, to web applications and services, to devices, to new architectures and languages, required fundamental changes to the whole stack. We looked at how we could accommodate these needs through incremental changes to VB6 while maintaining its essence, and that was not possible.

    To address the modern needs we would need to go far beyond updating the language. We have to remember that VB6 is not just a language. VB6 is a language, a runtime, a platform library, a tool/IDE, and an ecosystem tightly packaged together in a way that made all of them work well together. We’ve worked with many customers on migration from VB6 to .NET and found that while yes, there are language changes, the dominating factor in migration difficulties isn’t the language differences. Even open sourcing the language/runtime wouldn’t solve the fact that VB6 was thought for a different set of problems, and the fact that its strength came from the end-to-end solution provided by all these five pieces working together. Take a change like 64bit, the complete runtime, tools and ecosystem chain would need to be retooled.

    So, moving forward what can we do? Where we have been able to help move forward is in our stance around support and interoperability. The VB6 runtime it is still a component of the Windows operating system and is a component shipped in Windows 8.1. It will be supported at least through 2024. This ensures your apps and components continue to run as you incrementally move forward to .NET. The support policy is here: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vstudio/ms788708. There are numerous interop strategies that we developed and evolved to enable incremental migration as you upgrade your skills, described here: http://msdn.com/vbrun.

    In summary, VB6 was awesome. We agree. We don’t expect or demand anyone to throw away their code or rewrite from any of our technologies unless it makes business sense for them to do so. We have to innovate to enable our customers to innovate. It is not a viable option to create a next version of VB6. We stand by our decision to make VB.NET and the .NET Framework. We think they are awesome too. It is not feasible to open source VB6 tools chain and ecosystem. The VB6 runtime was last shipped in Windows 8.1 and will be supported for the lifetime of Windows 8.1. Support and interop are great tools to move forward incrementally.

    I hope you feel we’ve listened to your feedback and that I’ve explained things well enough that you understand our decision.

    Paul Yuknewicz
    Group Program Manager
    Microsoft Visual Studio Cloud Tools

    9367 comments

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      • martin rizal commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        HMan2828: "NASA has been at the forefront of technology innovation for the last 30-40 years, I have no idea what you are talking about."

        --Caught a fish in mouth. Base on your statement, you are not a professional developer at all. Because you did not considering the stability and reliability of the software that you written in real situation.

        Anyway how many applications that you written in .NET? Can you show it to us? If you did not show your apps, you are not a developer, you are just a lobbyist.

      • Kontex commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Good car comparison:

        C / C ++ = faster race cars, go only for the people in the circle
        NET = truck, slow and immobile, only useful for large loads
        VB6 = family car, suitable for everyday use, very useful for everyone, always available

        :-)

      • SuperDre commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @HMan2828: Nope, VB6 would be the All Terrain tire....... But then again, you're just a troll who really doesn't understand anything about business.. So go play with your .NET and let the rest of the real professionals work with all the languages they need for their business..

        And it's BS what you say about IT moving faster, changing to a new flavor of the day just because some ******* is too lazy to actually do some work and knows what he/she's doing doesn't mean it's better.. Why is it that I can still do about everything with VB6 that I can also do with .NET?
        (That's not saying VB6 is better than C#, both have their strengths and their weaknesses.. I've seen my co-workers scrambling to get their .NET project running in the latest visual studio because that one has one particular new feature of the .NET FRAMEWORK, BUT there isn't any reason why the older VS wouldn't be able to also use the same feature of the .NET framework..)

        But then again, I'm one of those persons that actually thinks for themselves and isn't a f-ing lemming to just follow the crowd because some people say it's better..
        I use the tools which I need for the job, and that could be .NET (for new project) but IS VB6 for old projects..

        And if VB6 is not stable (?????) than it's because you can't program for **** and really have no idea what you are doing.. Yes, ANY language can be 'unstable' if they person is incompetent, .NET doesn't help you with that...

      • Dennis Johnson commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        "C/C++ would be the race car rubber, .NET would be a modern nice radial, and some would be oddball brand-specific tires."
        Again, speaking about cars, I would compare .Net to a truck!...

      • Dennis Johnson commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        "If you compare to wheels, VB6 is a wooden wheel compared to other languages"
        I think you have messed up here. C/C++ is the wheel, while VB6 is the axis between the wheels (VB6 is based on COM/ActiveX and C++, and Windows uses COM extensively). The VB6 compiler produces C++-based objects, obj files, which the linker uses and produces the final exe.
        Also, this technology is far from being phased out. How did you make this assumption, since M$ themselves started promoting it again?

      • HMan commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        C/C++ would be the race car rubber, .NET would be a modern nice radial, and some would be oddball brand-specific tires.

      • HMan commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        If you compare to wheels, VB6 is a wooden wheel compared to other languages.

      • Kontex commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @HMan2828

        The wheel was invented a long time ago. So is an old technique.
        Has been tried and tested. According to your logic wheels should now be replaced because the technology is old. I think almost all the cars in the world still have wheels.

        Why does no one
        Because there is no better solution

        Why do I think you're a lobbyist?

      • HMan commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        One thing most people here do not seem to understand is that the IT business moves fast, much faster today than 20 years ago. You have to keep up. There is no other option. You cannot stay stuck in the 90's forever, you will lose on all fronts. Just bite the bullet and update your stuff.

      • HMan commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        NASA has been at the forefront of technology innovation for the last 30-40 years, I have no idea what you are talking about.

        VB6 is not particularly stable nor is it more readable than any of a number of languages, nor is it faster or more capable. It is below average in almost all aspects. It is also old and based on technology that is being phased out.

        There really is nothing to argue about, it had a long great period where it was the only one filling its niche, it has been replaced by much better, more capable, and faster platforms. It no longer fills a niche. And now it is time to die, it is that simple.

        You already have support until 2024, what else do you want? There is already many VB replacements. Time to invest in some development, did you think you would go on selling that app you made in 1994 until the end of time without eventually having to evolve?

      • martin rizal commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        HMan2828HMan2828 commented · September 24, 2014 9:25 PM ·

        Unfortunately I do not believe they will remove support for Windows 9. But if they do it would be a great thing for all programmers! Not for business owners, but who cares. Businessmen rarely have the greater good in mind.

        --HMan2828 are you an educated person? Programmers can be a business owners because serving the automated solutions to a business firm, organizations, or even individual. Its all about stability and realibility of a software. Think of this NASA was not changed their techonologies for the past 30-40 years. Because their techonology that they developed is reliable and stable. Changing their techonology is very critical because in can cause the loss of lives of astronauts. This is same on changing the platform, you write a reliable and stable software for critical mission. Rewriting an app from one platform to other platform is very prone to bugs and errors that can cause service downtime to business firm and affects the productivity of a firm.

      • martin rizal commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Anonymous commented · September 25, 2014 07:16 · Flag as inappropriate

        950 thousand lines converted to NET in 9 months. Not bad at all. Here some people were complaining to convert 100 thousand lines of code, which would last only 1 month. So why do they complain then? I guess it is only laziness.

        ---It is not the laziness of a developer. Its all about stability and realibility of a software. Think of this NASA was not changed their techonologies for the past 30-40 years. Because their techonology that they developed is reliable and stable. Changing their techonology is very critical because in can cause the loss of lives of astronauts. This is same on changing the platform, you write a reliable and stable software for critical mission. Rewriting an app from one platform to other platform is very prone to bugs and errors that can cause service downtime to business firm and affects the productivity of a firm.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Please release a new Version of Visual Basic. Unfortunately Microsoft often doesn't consider wishes from customers or developers. Take a look at Windows 8. Nearly no customer in our computer-shop above 40 years wants to have on his new computer. Same with VB 6. Thousands of developers and dev-teams built fantastic aplications with this versatile software. VB6 is not blown up und oversized like Net. VB6 focuses the essentials we need and we love, not more, not less. A new. modern VB7 would be a great success, i'm quite shure!

        Written in VB6:
        Sicca-Software
        HaPRO32-Software (more infos at: www.bytemap.de)

        Greeets from Eckart

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        So it took them 750,000 euros to open source their software.. FUNNY. And if that is a case study I assume MS chose the best one they could find, not too impressive.

      • Sten2005 - Microsoft support VB6 programming on Windows 10 until at least 2025 commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Anonymous

        >> "Why the folks here don't convert your VB6 code to .NET. I believe it is not that difficult. "

        Here is a case study put forward by Microsoft to encourage conversion of VB6 programming to dotNet:-

        http://www.microsoft.com/casestudies/Case_Study_Detail.aspx?casestudyid=4000006181

        These people had 950,000 lines of VB6 code. It took 3 programmers 9 months to migrate at a cost of 750,000 euros (about $1 million US).

      • Kontex commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Sorry wrong language, here again

        @Anonymous Commented · September 24, 2014 8:00 PM

        I think you have no idea what are you writing. The Migration Wizard you can forget it. And about 1.5 million code and 3000 Forms are not just a few months to implement. It takes years!. I did not necessarily have anything against VB.NET but first bring a functioning migration Assitenten makes 95% of conversion. Then we'll see.

      • Kontex commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        @Anonymous commented · September 24, 2014 8:00 PM

        Ich glaube du hast keine Ahnung was du da schreibst. Den Migrations-Assistent kannst du vergessen. Und ca. 1.500.000 Code und 3.000 Forms sind nicht einfach ein ein paar Monaten umzusetzen. Das dauert Jahre !. Ich hab nicht unbedingt etwas gegen VB.NET aber bring erstmal einen funktionierenden Migrations-Assitenten der 95% der Umstellung macht. Dann sehen wir weiter.

      • Anonymous commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Hi, Anonymous:
        There are technical factors beyond plain conversion. Some systems are designed to be extensible: mine uses VBScript and user developed DLLs. VBScript variants are compatible with VB6 variants, but not with VFred variants. So, most of the scripts -that have been developed by customers of whose existence I am not even aware- might be broken. And the DLLs, well, they are VB6 COM DLLs, and there is no warranty that they will behave properly hosted in a system built with a different technology.
        And although MS seems to believe that they can break their customers' code whenever they want, I just can't.
        Then, there is the subject of TRUST.
        There is no way that I will wever adopt another Microsoft development tool: the possibility that they decide to repeat the VB6 episode is way too scary.

      • HMan commented  ·   ·  Flag as inappropriate

        Unfortunately I do not believe they will remove support for Windows 9. But if they do it would be a great thing for all programmers! Not for business owners, but who cares. Businessmen rarely have the greater good in mind.

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