Marc Roussel

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      under review  ·  499 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » .NET  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      C# and UI builder interface. Drag and Drop, DataGrid, nice controls and animation all made simple in a UI like Blend for Silverlight for which everything runs in the browser. Nothing else please, no JavaScream, no HTML, no Razor, No external libraries.

      Thank you very much and see you in 20 years !

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      If Elon Musk can send a car in space, Microsoft can send a cow to Mars and back I'm pretty sure of that.

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      @Anoonee I think some people working at Microsoft are anonymously writing here. Maybe there's nothing they can do. It's about hierarchy

      Some people are taking decisions which affect the future of the developers as we know it.

      Marc Roussel commented  · 
      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      @Mike-EEE You have the words to express exactly the need. Thank you and happy 10,032

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      Please can we remove JavaScript of the equation ? This is the culprit in all this as well as not having a GUI to develop UI as it was before.
      We are .NET developers that just want a solid GUI call it BlazorEditor, Blend or whatever you want and all we do is coding C# OOP full from server to client which will run on the WEB.

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      ...Meanwhile we develop in JavaCrap with tons of frameworks and we don't know for how long we will suffer.

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      Thumbs up

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      @Olumide If I may add to that, at the beginning we had one code base, VB then VB 6 following by VB.NET and 90% of these coders switched to C# and I don't want to argue here about syntax but let stick with C# as a major player. We were all happy in our happiness but something was missing. The whole Windows development wasn't working on the WEB then came an unpredictable thing we welcomed so well : Silverlight. All developer were in extreme joy. Suddenly we reached a canyon and felt in it (without dying of course) and now we are at the bottom wondering how to go back up. Meanwhile at the bottom, many dyed of starvation and the rest of use that still struggle with many syntax and poor foundation which result in a long development process are waiting for a rope or a ladder to help us regain what we had at the top of a canyon which is getting deeper with time.

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      @Markus Schaber:

      Any GUI to develop ? Because having a button this way is hard to know where it is.

      // Create the UI
      var button = new Button("Click me!");

      This makes me laugh a little. Imagine I have a very complex form to build. I don't think I see myself building a UI that way.

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      @Anonymous LOL - Microsoft isn't going to bring about some white horse frontend technology that everyone will use

      Why not ?

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      @FilipiVC Welcome to the unubiquitous world of finding the right solution in a time frame for which the technology is changing rapidly. In a nutshell, right now it's called MVC and a ton of frameworks with a not so powerful foundation.

      We still have to wait.....Waiting since a long time now....Meanwhile it's a pain in the...Blazor ? Hmmm not so sure. No GUI to develop UI UX We are still again at the age of the Autocad LISP

      A negative post sorry...

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      I think it's ok. We don't need it anymore ;)

      Did you ever try to do a grid like Telerik Silverlight RadGrid in Javascript ? You better have to work on it fast and for a long time. Despite having a lot of people trying to push some kind of Data Grid out there. I saw all of them and none are 30% of RadGrid and specially all typed with C# on the client side Mhuaaaaaa

      Right now I'm doing a BIG project in JS/Razor/C#/Html/CSS/Jquery/Ajax and everything else and I had to forfeit with their old Telerik RadGridView and go with CARDS instead. No more fency rows with cell colors, filters, aggregates and validation made easy. That time is the past. Now it's CARDS and simple

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      @Yoram Bucks can you tell us what you will do about security which any fake graphic sent from the server to the client would be as real as anything else ? What a big change just to make sure we can copy and paste texts, having a debugger tool for that and finally all this has a huge cost in regards to browser implementation of that change.

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      @Muhammad Touseef thumbs up...

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      I see. Is it not what Razor Engine does at the back-end to render the view and the model which is sent to the client ?

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      @Yoram Bucks I'm actually using MVC 5 with Razor view and I'm already developing with ASP.NET Core 2.0 and let me tell you that binding is rock solid with the technologies and extremely easy.

      For everybody still reading. As a reminder, here's the real deal

      1) BLEND or any kind of tool which can let us develop UI easily by placing controls on the design surface and bind it directly to our model RIGHT in the UI tool then as we all know in Silverlight we double click, or whichever event you need, you just go on the code behind and do your job.
      2) ONE and ONLY one language C# should be used and not even a need to update a Proxy for client as this should be automatically done when we use the instances on the client side.

      The goal is to be productive quickly and easily. XAML replaces HTML and C# replaces JavaScript
      and please don't give us something which needs 10 to 20 different libraries out there which we Nuget all the time to achieve simple things like datepicker or globalization or whatever you can think of.

      Why this is so hard to grasp ? I see many people trying to invent something which isn't the need

      The need is to make the ONE tool and behind all this do whatever it takes to make it works on the web.

      We are waiting for this ONE tool which we had with Silverlight. Right now I have to redo a huge project for a client which was in Silverlight and the best I have right is ASP.NET MVC 5/6 which requires 6 different syntax and a lot of work and attention not counting research on every single library to know why things aren't working the way it should just because a dependencies is missing or there's a bug present in the library. I don't need to explain how much all this is excruciating.

      We don't even have a designer for Razor and the technology is there since a relatively long time. I'm speachless about that.

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      People will probably get into the wagon if they can easily convert existing Silverlight app including third-party like Telerik.

      Starting all over from scratch BIG applications is almost not an option for so many of us. So the guys that are trying to start something should seek such possibility with the third-party vendors used when Silverlight was alive.

      Good luck

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      It doesn't support Telerik and many Silverlight projects were using this third party. How can this be converted. Also their migration technique is almost the same as going everything manually which can be done with MVC. Both way of migrating is a pain. Either you create a new CSHTML5 project and add all your files and have to deal with everything that doesn't work with CSHTML5 and there's lot actually or you do everything manually which is to bring all the server code on an MVC project and you work out all your return values as JSon for Ajax call from the client and you have to redo all the UI.
      My opinion is that developers should not worry about anything and just continue working with the same development tool (Silverlight) and at the end a simple button pressed will make your entire project work on the web with whatever they can offer us like WebAssemly or MVC hence conversion wouldn't be necessary. The end result will be a working Silverlight app with Telerik included. But this will never see the light and that's extremely sad !

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      My customer for which I did a huge Silverlight app asked me how much time it would take to convert the project in HTML5. I told him it's a difficult question but I tried to give him an idea based on the fact that I actually work for an employer and I can give him only 1 hour per day, 5 days a week. At full time 35 hours a week I said 7 months but at 1 hour per day it makes 49 months.

      Lots of server side code can be kept using MVC still there's a lot of changes in regards to how the data is returned to the client and then the most difficult part is converting all the C#/XAML code on the client side in JavaScript/HTML

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      Yes I agree but you understand that people doesn't have a choice but to use JavaScript as a language for the web it doesn't mean we want to push C sharp language away. The survey just mean JavaScript is being the only language used for client side that's why there is so many people using it. This is the message this thread is trying to explain. I am not scared about this survey I'm just scared about the time it takes to get us C sharp as a language for client side

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      C# is declining LOL

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      This survey doesn't make any sense C# is the one language so many VB 6 programmers switched over since the last years

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      I'm tired

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      @birbilis interesting information you have there. I just hope one thing. I can take the $760 357.32 app I did for a customer and just run it against a new technology and not explaining to my customer I have to rewrite it.

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      DRAG & DROP yes a must have but is this possible with MVC today ? Will we see a merge of XAML, C#, MVC or we will just see something with again 15 libraries and 6 syntaxes ?
      I'm on the floor. I want to quit as a developer.

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      As I'm doing my 1 year and 11 months in the world of web app development using JS, JQuery, Bootstrap, HTML and CSS to name a few, I remark that developing the UI is taking me 90% of the time for the overhaul application. the Business logic in C# is made at the speed of light. Making a good UI in the other hand is a huge nightmare. There's nothing we SEE to DRAG and DROP and place things and do effects etc. NOTHING !!!! It's a go and GUESS with pseudo code and run the application to see then going back and forth like that is time consuming. I hate developing USER INTERFACE like that. It reminds me of the old LISP development in AutoCAD !!

      Did I tell you how bad the performance is with JS ? I'm so tired of this script it's unbearable

      I want to develop a user interface using some kind of BLEND but when you look at ASP.NET or MVC with visual Studio DESIGN surface is impossible to work with. I'm wondering if I will see a tool like BLEND to develop web application in my programmer life time which by the way is almost at the end.

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      Can someone at Uservoice filter out these annoying spams like Hartleben Bengston below which we receive by email ?

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      This is what you have to know to make a web application these days

      .NET
      EF
      HTML
      CSS
      JavaScript
      JQuery
      JQuery UI
      Bootstrap
      Razor
      MVC Pattern
      SQL

      What is needed is just this :

      .NET
      EF
      XAML (Great Visual Editor with binding to models)
      SQL

      ;)

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      Well, In just a few words regardless of JS, C#, .NET and whatever other things we can think of, we simply want Silverlight back for Cross-Platform, Cross-Browser and Cross-whatever in the future. That's about all.

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      Yeah however the drop of .NET is less likely considering all server codes are written in that language and not JavaScript. It's impossible to drop .NET entirely. Now JavaScript on the client side is because it's an old technology that people are Hanged on since a long time and is becoming clumsy and fat with lots of problems for developer that embrace beautiful classes, lamba and exception handling the right way.

      So many people going nuts with frameworks of all kind just in hope to be purchased by Microsoft. JavaScript is a very poor language which absolutely need to be replaced gradually with .NET. I just hope MS will be the pioner of such technology

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      Pitié, pas un autre framework, je suis pu capable.

      Leaving .NET ? What are you talking about ! JavaScript and all those framework over it which I'm using since 2 years are making my apps FAT and slow. We need .NET ASAP !

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      I just hope we don't have some kind of library needed that resemble C#. We need pure C# both sides client and server. That's all we need and specially a good interface designer.

      That's as simple as that. Nothing more.

      What is interesting is how we, programmers, want to do web application without having all kinds of anonymous objects on client side with no intellisense as it is the case with JavaScript. Developing is so much fun when you have Client-Server understanding each other in the same development environment and same language thus you create your classes on the server side and the client knows about them (PROXY) but please understand that we need to avoid adding a Service Reference and updating it each time when necessary. This was not interesting in Silverlight so to my opinion we need to abstract that work which the futur development environment should do intelligently and silently.

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      How long this will stay in UNDER REVIEW state ?

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      Can't wait :)

      1) C# Client and server
      2) UI DESIGNER not just mark-up writing.
      3) Superb BINDING system like Silverlight
      4) A conversion tool for existing Silverlight APP is absolutely necessary (if possible)

      We need to do beautiful interface these days and I find it very hard labor to do interface in Razor
      I'm actually redoing a HUGE Silverlight app and it's painful believe me.

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      A converter from Silverlight to MVC X is necessary! Whatever the cost because otherwise the cost will go to all those corporations which have lots of Silverlight applications currently running and far too HUGE to convert manually.

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      I was wrong about Bridge.NET sorry about that. It's an excellent idea and upon testing it I find it attractive. Should be integrated with MVC

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      All we need is ONE language and the real .NET one please and ONE WEB APP running everywhere. This is what Silverlight was doing so well. We also need something else along that line. We dislike writing HTML by hand for UI thus a need for a great Blend tool to design our interface and having this nice double click action to go right in the C# event code and write the code. I think you see what I mean!

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      Bridge ? I just tried this and it's not even close to C# at all. I tried this simple thing and it doesn't even work. I looked at examples and I dislike the syntax not being like C#

      public class App
      {
      [Ready]
      public static void Main()
      {
      Person p = new () { Name = "Joe Blow"};
      }
      }

      public class Person
      {
      public string Name {get; set;}
      public List<string> Compagnies {get; set;}
      }

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      Could that be the answer we're looking for ?

      http://cshtml5.com/

      Marc Roussel commented  · 

      Here's my little story.

      I did a lot of SL app for many business and I'm actually the only one capable of converting these apps for them. I'm forced to use HTML 5 and JQuery and a bit of TypeScript and let me tell you that it's not the future I wanted. So sad to see both sides so disconnected. Server side very nice OOP c# code with lamda, linq etc and all the glory that goes with it and then you transfer your object s to the client side to find out that you're playing with strings and some kind of freaky OOP that doesn't have real intellisense at all and I don't want to talk about the UI design in HTML which is totally absent of this world which xaml and Blend was offering so easily.

      So yes we need .NET world of development that targets the web of today. We don't have time to incorporate tons of nuget frameworks to develop a web app. The ideal world for .NET developers are like Silverlight. Nothing less seriously !!!

      You can't imagine the effort I'm putting in converting these apps to HTML 5, CSS, JQuery, Razor, Bootstrap, and more where all I had before was C# + XAML that's all and a very great tool to design UI. All this is lost !!

      From my point of view we don't need to see compilers, transpilers, etc these aren't necessary when developing we just need to see one language, one tool, call it ONEDEV if you whish but yeah that's all we need.

      Well 2 language in fact, HTML 5 and C#. Yes it's ok to loose XAML but at least all the business logic SERVER and CLIENT side should be for instance C# and a GREAT tool to design UI with HTML 5 the way we do with Blend not having to write HTML to see what we want on the UI. That's crazy developing UI with HTML 5 text and run the app so often to see what it looks.

      All this is a huge time consuming thing. What as been said here is what I think so don't take it for granted. I'm just dreaming out loud and expressing what I think about all this.

      Marc Roussel supported this idea  · 
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        0 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » IDE and Editor  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
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              0 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » IDE and Editor  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
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                1 comment  ·  Visual Studio IDE » User Interface  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
                Marc Roussel commented  · 

                I don't understand why this is not changeable. Why having the Recent like that ? For me I just want to reload previous solutions. Knowing that I loaded a solution yesterday or 2 weeks ago is irrelevant. I just need to load a previous solution. If this is valid for some people it isn't for others. I think you can free some codes from VS by removing that.

                Marc Roussel supported this idea  · 
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