Thanks for that -- very interesting. Windows XP, 7, and now 10 are hard to beat. However, the first lesson I learned about "dumb decisions" from Microsoft was when they trashed hardware access when upgrading from Windows 98 and ME. No one noticed that the decision instantly put many thousands of small businesses in trouble, mine included, because the hardware layer access in Windows 98 was the cornerstone of many industrial control systems. All of a sudden I found myself in dozens of meetings explaining to clients why non-NT was no longer made!
An entire Industrial rack mount computer industry was wiped out overnight. The millions invested in motherboard I/O (including printed circuit boards we developed), now wasted. The information systems I sold each meant many MS OS sales. MS didn't even seem to notice or care that their industrial usage arm was holed below the waterline. (Now, in industrial control solutions, Linux has taken over .. it could have been MS).
XP is a lot more stable, and indeed most NT based upgrades have been a considerable improvement, but it wouldn't have been rocket science for Microsoft to have added backward compatibility.
In more general terms, Microsoft need to learn "consistency consistency consistency". The ignorance and arrogance of Microsoft is bewildering if not epic. Ever since Gates left, they seem incapable of applying common sense. Someone in Harvard must have done a popular thesis on obsolescence because MS has adopted it as their mantra! They have abandoned VB6, XNA, SilverLight, Skype API, the original MS Office menus, VS Java, Foxpro, Access, .... Each time they do this, people jump out windows with their careers and businesses in tatters. But Microsoft are just psychopathic at times in their ability to ignore the plight of their own customers. At one point in W8, they even tried to get rid of the desktop! It beggars belief that they expected clients to sit at desks with administrative software running on something that looked more like a giant mobile phone than a desktop PC. Success breeds contempt!
A great story: Once there were two microprocessor giants, Intel and Motorola. Motorola had the best and fastest 16-bit chips and were set to dominate. Then they both decided to come out with a 32 bit chip. Motorola's was miles better than the Intel 32-bit device. Miles better! BUT Intel did something Motorola decided wasn't important... Intel maintained backward compatibility with their original 16-bit processes. Motorola BETRAYED their own client base. They just stuck up their middle finger and said "go back to school and re-learn". NOW -- how many people have heard of Motorola processors these days? And that's the same dumb mistake Microsoft make over and over again. "CONSISTENCY CONSISTENCY CONSISTENCY".
The lesson is that when people buy tech, they are making a decision to invest colossal amounts of time in experience in that product. My customers used to demand Microsoft because they thought the bigger the company, the safer the investment. But no. Once a company has shown a willingness to betray their customers' investment with careless abandon, that company is dead. Teach that one in Harvard! Keep up your good work WME.
At first I thought you were trying to wind people up, but now I am beginning to wonder... are you serious? Where are you based that you would want ME back? Why?
@Codist & Anon, thank you for those replies. First of all, that PowerShell IDE certainly looks very comprehensive. Interesting how the latest trend seems to be going retro -- towards white on black. Noting that it says Code Colourisation, does that mean it doesn't do tight syntax checking like instantly identifying wrongly declared variables or basic syntax errors? Your point on the GUI is well noted!
@Anonymous commerce thanks for those points too. I'm quite familiar with both. Notepad++ certainly only does code colourisation and makes no attempt at declaration checks etc. VBSEdit is much better but I've hardly used it. Although it is better integrated, it still seems to lack instantaneous declaration/syntax checks(?). NSB seems to be gaining ground. I started watching a year ago. I've never played with it, but it does look like it's going places.
I totally agree with your point about it being usable -- my single highest priority, but also: no-limitations! Jobaco, now regarded as dead, was at first that breath of fresh air. Within minutes I had a form with a timer and buttons achieving real world requirements. That's why everybody at first leapt at it, but sadly it lost its way. Cheers
Hi Anonymous, as you might have spotted further below, I'm developing an advanced IDE for VBScript etc.
It would be very interesting to know what kind of IDE you use and if a better, tight syntax checking & debugger IDE one would help.
Also, what scripting requirements do you have? Eg: networking? drive maintenance & housekeeping? software/update rollout? Any script sample websites you'd recommend?
Finally, would a simple form builder for a visual user interface be useful?
Ps: I have much the same queries for The Codist as I would like to target PS later in the road map.
Thanks. Interesting to hear from someone on the other side. VB6 was open to structural abuse and I have seen some incredible hacks as well. On the other hand, as an electronics engineer, I'm maybe "that person". I moved into software and employed a C++ developer to "learn VB6" and take my work forward. He did quite a reasonable job and even started to like VB6, but I did see him attempting to "rewrite from scratch" which was an indication he wasn't enjoying it. Unfortunately, when software evolves and is selling well, it's usually because thousands of exceptions and idiosyncrasies have been worked through. A rewrite (as he proved when "let loose") is a disaster too. So yes! I sympathise.
Maybe one of the reasons why VB6 is often unpopular is that it is simply the language that went before. No one likes to inherit someone else's mess!
As for VBS, that market change is very interesting too. Unfortunately, having discovered how to compile VBS (without VB6), I was going to target VBS (and HTA) as one of the early options. I haven't tried PowerShell much (but have tried). I am sure it is horses for courses -- if you are an IT professional working with computer rooms full of racks, I suspect PowerShell is the right choice. Unfortunately, PS is quite alien to COM (I assume).
As for the lack of market (thanks for looking at VB64), yes, that very much concerns me. Unfortunately, there are Many reasons why not do this. One of the few reasons remaining is that it simply suits a certain type of intellect. It encourages a highly iterative and intuitive approach which I for one enjoy. I consider more othodox programmers highly intelligent (and often exploited -- but that's another matter), but the beauty of a noncareer programmer (like me, altho somewhere in-between) is that you can have someone who intimately understands the requirement, and sometimes elegant software is secondary to that requirement. Some brainiac actually wrote a JPEG compressor right down to byte code. And it was only 20% slower than C / Asm versions. I marvelled at the intellect and yet couldn't understand why he/she never wrapped it properly as a commercial solution. Indeed, the interface to it was what I regarded as a horrible hack. Horses for courses!
Lets hope there is a bright future for Both intellects. If you ever have to return to VBS, I hope you will download my T4. It sure knocks the socks off VBSedit.
@The Codist - When I type a VBS into Windows 10 64 bit, it looks pretty alive to me. And what about VBA for office?
Not a fan of Powershell much. Have you ever looked at the mess of xml and txt files etc loaded into your windows folder that is powershell? Why does the world go for bloat? Rhetorical question. PShell is Dot Net! No intellisense, not even context sensitive help. Who writes carp like that? Hope you didn't bang your head too long or have to do too much googling to get it to work. Mind you, with no oficial IDE, VBS is just as bad. (VBSedit is okish).
Actually, on your point (I paraphrase) "they are never going to do it so stop asking", I'm inclined to AGREE. So I'm not asking, I'm re-writing.
On the generality of whether or not the VB6 paradigm is fit for purpose, yes it is. It suits certain intellects -- thats all.
I think this guy sums it up. "I had the sinking realization that all of my old code and all of my expertise as a VB programmer was going to be thrown out by Microsoft just because they were afraid of the growing popularity Java ....." & "I’m sure they sincerely believed that Java would take over if they didn’t sacrifice the Windows-centric API and COM based VB Classic and move as quickly as possible to some amazing miracle product. Now, over a decade later, it is pretty obvious that this was a mistake." & "I already hear rumors that VB.NET will be discontinued because it is similar to (and not as popular as) C#…"
Were you a VB6 coder?
@The Codist, no need for digs. If VB6 is not your thing, no prob.
VB6 is not dead, if you search your windows folder for VB*.dll, you'll find it everywhere in VBscript, VBA*.*, etc. MS used VBE6.dll which is part of MS OneNote 2007 and Office 2007. An examination of it finds it is near the same as VB6!
VB is still the macro engine for office. I only have the 2007 version but a cursory look at google images tells me it is still there on W10 doing fine.
I've become something of an expert on COM (Component Object Model) while writing www.vb64.com (VB6 IDE replacement), and I can say COM is deeply embedded in the way Windows works. VB6 accesses it!
There is a huge community out there still using VB6 as it does certain things (like COM) better than all else.
Hi Grant. It's already happened with VB5cce (available still to download). I am trying to get MS to reinstate the support page. See https://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio-ide/suggestions/17807467-reinstate-vb5cce
Ps: Please vote as it is being used for the www.vb64.com lite version.
Maybe you could also help with https://visualstudio.uservoice.com/forums/121579-visual-studio-ide/suggestions/17807467-reinstate-vb5cce .. This was free but deleted recently.
Shaggy, who cares what dot net does. VB6 has a fantastic symbiotic relationship with COM -- the building block concept of Windows itself (in that it derives from DLLs). I don't know what you are talking about and I wonder if you do, as my tinkering with dot net reveals no such flexibility akin to VB6. Perhaps a professor of bureaucratic bloat twaddle can enlighten me. Like Federico, all I want is a product that makes sense that I don't have to google until my fingers bleed to make it do the simplest thing. And that's why I've invested a couple of months in resurrecting the concept of VB6. A simple logical RAD tool that real proactive people, not autistic savants pounding away at coquettish digital effigies, need to make the world spin.
Candidly, VB5cce is free but MS deleted the tesxt and downloads recently. It was to be part of my VB6 replacement project (offering www.vb64.com *lite* for free or low-cost trials using the free (legal) VB5 OCX compiler therein).Lofaday - www VB64 com - A new IDE is on its way shared this idea ·
VB5cce was free but deleted recently. It was to be part of my VB6 replacement project (offering www.vb64.com *lite* for free or low cost trials using the free (legal) VB5 OCX compiler therein).
They won't do it because 1/ VB6 makes VB.Net coders & managers jealous as it made too many millionaires (inc' me), 2/ India and Microsoft seem to be enjoying some kind of unholy matrimony whereby vast global corporates, especially banks who don't want coder genius mavericks, can employ millions of coders paid in peanuts to be hired and fired at will like worker bees that can never challenge the authority of the queen bee share holders in the way VB6 did. That's why software got bureaucratic and unwieldy.
I have considered re-writing the thing myself but there was a kickstarter project some while back that virtually NOBODY backed. If anyone can suggest a practical way of rallying all this VB6 revival sentiment, I'd be all ears! My email addy is above.
Happy new year all! Let's see if this idea has got legs.. See www.vb64.com and please comment..
Basically it's a wrapper to MS VB6 itself providing a replacement IDE GUI and integrated hashing "TransCompiler" (source-to-source compiler) for both VB6's compiler (which, if you don't have already, you need to get seperately from MS .. details on vb64 site).
By modernising and adding features to the IDE itself, and yet by legitimately using VB6's compiler, we can offer TOTAL VB6 COMPATIBILITY and add some integrated extras (like COM zip, jpeg saving, code management). Better still, the "TransCompiler" offers a roadmap to different platforms. OS's, etc -- and secures your skills for the future.
The main purpose is to legitimize VB6's ongoing use, by being able to say to your clients "it is current and it is supported". I will need your help though to kickstart it! :-)
Can someone please email me or reply here and give a link confirming MS's intention to sideline VB.Net? Ie: something to back up the statement "Dotnet 2015 made it clear: VB.NET developers need to switch to C# or be left behind."? Thanks.