Oliver Shaw

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      under review  ·  369 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » .NET  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
      Oliver Shaw commented  · 

      Just had a full play with Noesis that now supports 99% WPF!

      It bloody good... it's super fast and easy to work with.

      They got binding and support for .NET core.

      I'd say the only missing components are Telerik controls or other.

      If Noesis had these we'd start building in it tomorrow.

      We're going to look how possible it is to convert UWP controls to work with Noesis.

      I also really like Avalonia and it'll interesting to see who wins support from Telerik first!

      Oliver Shaw commented  · 

      Mike,

      Think problem is that Google, Apple and MS won't want people avoiding their stores with apps in browser so they'll find someway to prevent this. Wouldn't you?

      Avalonia UI will be apps and download via their stores. This is why it's so important and why I can't understand why MS aren't backing it heavily! Also, why they back Xamarin I'd guess.

      Oliver Shaw commented  · 

      The big boys will wall garden their native development.

      What us innovators require is a nice well constructed tunnel beneath the walls.

      Avalonia and Neosis are two of the best bets out there. With a bit more time we have our tunnels. There is also wine bottler and crossover for Mac that has potential.

      We have to be careful that these tunnels are not simply crushed by Apple and Google.

      In some ways I feel sorry for Microsoft - they lost the web browser, search, mobile, mapping, the web and now they are losing native and OS. They did have most of these sorted at one point or another.

      Their attempt to push Silverlight cross browser was both brave and slightly desperate. Quashed quickly by Google and Apple under the guise of security and legal.

      My thought is - in a world where Avalonia and Neosis are production ready for LOB. What can Apple and Google do to squish them out of existence and why are Microsoft not simply working with these guys to get a win?

      Microsoft if you keep head in sand and don't sort this the OS will end up in the cloud and so will all the new apps. Why do we need Windows at this point? You make Avalonia in house and offer better performance than web, plus maybe use it to build the windows store for other platforms - you get a lot of your previous control back.

      I'd probably try employ many people from this forum to inject the nessercary passion into the project.

      Luckily the company I work for still sells both Silverlight and WPF apps with great success. It would put us in a awesome winning position to port to a production Avalonia or equivalent.

      Oliver Shaw commented  · 

      We also used Telerik on one large project.

      Mainly for data grids and day, month schedulers.

      UWP Telerik controls are open source. Perhaps this is an option for Avalonia.

      I haven't looked at them in detail, but I assume they are similar to SL just not as extensive.

      I would also guess that once Avalonia is more developed the likelihood of Telerik to convert its SL control would increase.

      Anyone have any thoughts on this?

      Oliver Shaw commented  · 

      Interesting convo on Avalonia started up about sponsoring development.

      We'd certainly consider this, especially if enough people got behind it?

      https://github.com/AvaloniaUI/Avalonia/issues/1151

      Oliver Shaw commented  · 

      MS - devs don't like JS/HTML for front end LOB (it's rubbish compared with .NET/XAML)

      Reality check for the 1000th time - Build a C# and XAML UI that reflects Silverlight or WPF!

      Now have a chance to go backwards so you can move forwards.

      GET .NET, C# and XAML (and HTML) in WASM ASAP! be in front of the competition.

      --- alternate thought, anyone thought about resurrecting Mono Moonlight now that Mono is pushing to WASM?
      http://www.mono-project.com/docs/web/moonlight/

      If Telerik for example took this on and could in some way sell it to MS developers. I wonder how many customers they would have for moonlight in WASM?

      Oliver Shaw supported this idea  · 
      Oliver Shaw commented  · 

      Thanks Roger, great article!

      I remember when apple where onboard with SL.

      I think I'd feel a whole lot better if MS released a roadmap including plans for GC, C#, XAML in WebAssembly.

      Currently there is only toolchain for C/C++ and JavaScript API on WebAssembly.

      I remember the good old days when developers had some clarity moving forwards. Makes it very difficult to innovate without it.

      I'll remain hopeful that I can once again consider myself an MS fanboy.

      http://www.esarcasm.com/1218/oldest-living-microsoft-fanboy-tells-all/

      Oliver Shaw commented  · 

      WebAssembly will be SL all over again. Apple and Google will not want it to happen as it circumvents App Stores. I'm guessing this is why the preview is in Edge because MS want to run games on their devices. Plus, it'll be a long time coming.

      I think the best bet is cross platform desktop apps such as Avalonia, which looks awesome! .NET community should get behind this. CSHTML5 guys are progressing very quickly - but it's not backed by MS and it probably has performance issues.

      I don't like the idea of writing JS and HTML as it's slow and difficult to maintain.

      MS (Apple and Google) will probably f*ck us again because they only do what's in their $$ interest. I think they might be interested in cross platform desktop apps as it doesn't break their model. Maybe Satya Nadella will see the strategic benefit to giving his shrinking community of developers a method of building awesome and fast ubiquitous apps. Meaning rescue his failing App Store by giving 'programmers' the ability to make the best desktop apps in the market.

      We must also remember office 365, Power BI and Dynamics are all asp.net as I know.

      Fingers crossed, but unless something is decided very soon we'll be migrating to plebweb tech.

      Maybe some awesome human that works at MS will make a post here and instantly win back all their die hard developers in one go.

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        73 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » .NET  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
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          40 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » Mobile App Development  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
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