BR

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  1. 2,954 votes
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      111 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » Install  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

      I wanted to update the status to make sure you know that we hear you. This isn’t straightforward to deliver for obvious reasons: Visual Studio installs a disparate variety of tools, runtimes and SDKs, many of which come from third parties or other parts of Microsoft. We recognize that developers would love to see something lighter and while we have nothing new to announce at this stage, we are spending a lot of time thinking about how we can improve Visual Studio installation.

      Thanks for the feedback!

      Tim Sneath | Visual Studio Team

      BR commented  · 

      Yes. Removing VS dependencies on registry, c:\program files, etc is a good thing.

      Side by side install is easier, everything you need to Run VS version X will be in directory d:\VSx and its child directories.

    • 6,174 votes
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        96 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » .NET  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
        BR commented  · 

        Not happening. Once MS puts a product in coma life support, it's on its way to the graveyard.

        MS will say, 'You've had 10 years to move off SilverLight, we're not supporting it and not providing a browser based plugin/desktop plugin anymore'

        My local auto dealer will not have oddball car parts for a car they sold 30 years ago. Why should MS?

      • 1,090 votes
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          2 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » Languages - JavaScript  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
          BR commented  · 

          2 years later after the MS comment from Bowden Kelly , where is the JavaScript refactoring in VS 2017?

        • 1,184 votes
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            17 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » Languages - C#  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
            BR commented  · 

            A discussion of what size black box to have.
            Is the black box big, such as, create a purchase order with no line items.
            Or
            Is the black box small, like a method to create a purchase order shell, another 5 line method to create a purchase order header, another 5 line method to initialize purchase order to empty with no line items, etc.

            I favour larger black boxes of code with minimal number of entry points, minimal interaction from inside the black box to the rest of the system and minimal set of outputs.

            I'd rather see a purchase order class with 4 or 5 method which are for basic business operations than see one with 100+ methods for each micro-operation related to a purchase order.

            I can rewrite the big black box code more effectively than tracing through the weeds of 25+ methods each 10 lines long or less.

            Factor in how/when/what size to split methods up for reuse, maintainability and modularity.

            Absolutes like 'each method should fit on one monitor screen' are non-productive.

            A 5000 line class with hundreds of short methods will be much harder to understand than the same 5000 line class with 25 200 line methods.

            Each function call you have to go into when reading code is a multasking context switch which will reduce your productivity and inpair your train of thought.

            BR supported this idea  · 
          • 1,227 votes
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              28 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » Windows Forms  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
              BR commented  · 

              MS will hardly spend $1 million to make Winforms open source. It'd take a team of 20 developer many months or years to get it ready for open source. Think of all of the win32 special cases for windows 2000, XP, vista, 7, 8 and 10.

              MS will keep Winforms barely alive for a few more years and will stop including it in VS versions released on/after a certain date.

              They'll say use VS 2017 for the next 8 years for WinForms.

            • 1,407 votes
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                36 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » IDE and Editor  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
                BR commented  · 

                Why is VS having just about everything imaginable built into it?
                It should have little besides
                - Solution/Proiject management - add/remove projects, add remove files, add directory, move file from directory to another
                - Code edtor
                - output window, find window, locals widnows quick watch,
                - debugger
                - edit project settings
                - Create new solution

                -There's dozens of UI screens in VS which do not fit into those categories and must add 50% bloat to VS and make it unmaintainable.

                E.g., designer tools for winforms should be moved out to winforms designer separate executable

              • 1,514 votes
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                  21 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » .NET  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
                  BR commented  · 

                  Refer to Borland's Vroom OO based automatic code memory management from 25 years ago. It's been done and could be done now.

                • 2,176 votes
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                    172 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » Install  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →

                    Thanks for the many comments on this topic. We are listening…

                    On behalf of the Visual Studio team, I wanted to share a few responses to some of the questions and concerns raised, in the spirit of sharing with transparency the reasons that led us to the current installer options.

                    Visual Studio 2017 is a huge product, because we support so many types of development: from Android to UWP to C++ to Unity to Linux. If we were to still offer a ‘full’ install, it would come in at over 50GB. That’s one huge ISO image!

                    We surveyed hundreds of people during the previews and RCs, and people told us that they had historically used an ISO for two reasons: (i) because they wanted to download once and create a network install for enterprise deployment; (ii) because they had a shaky internet connection and wanted to be sure they’d downloaded…

                    BR commented  · 

                    Hi. A year and 1/2 later in September 2018 and no update from MS.

                    Simple solution, most VS developers use a small subset of VS. Post usage statistics on hte different features of VS. Provide an ISO with just the basics for VS. Provide a second ISO for the second tier of features.

                    And, importantly, remove features not used by more than 4% of the VS user base.

                    Look at the list of features added to VS from 2010 until 2017 and look at the features removed. For every removed feature, there are 10+ new features added.

                    A complex piece of software like VS cannot go in the direction of adding new features forever, eventually it will fall under its own weight.

                    My bank surely will pick fairly stodgy technologies to build systems in so that the large $ invested in the solution will last for 7+ years for financial record keeping requirements and for more years to pay itself off.

                    Stop thinking every developer goes from 3 month contract to contract where each project is written an then thrown away after 2 years.

                    Would you rather buy the cheapest car made, save a few $ today, and replace it in 3 years; or buy a moderately priced car with better reliability, drive it for 10 years and save lots more $ over its lifespan?

                    Why is it so difficult to have the same lines of reasoning when it comes to software development platform and what to use to develop a long lived business solution?

                    Making the VS toolset run from a USB drive would go a long way towards fixing this so that the installation is essentially Xcopy instead of the hundereds of registry entries, com objects (yuck should died long ago when Corba died), add/remove programs entries, etc.

                    Suggestion:
                    1. VS install should look for a local directory first
                    2. If tool is not found in local directory, ask do you want to get it from MS web site, and if yes then download the tool to the local directory
                    3. Let users copy the entire local directory to get an installation image for their environment

                    My customer contracts require softrware escrow where I have to give the source code, the tools needed to build it to an escrow company so that my customers can get and maintain the system should I go out of business.

                    The escrow is standard busines practice for large enterprise customers.

                  • 14 votes
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                      2 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » Developer Community  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
                      BR commented  · 

                      MS is closing UserVoice in Oct 2018 as a way to clean out the suggestions and start anew.
                      MS is essentially driving 3 areas in development and ignoring other areas:
                      - Anything Azure
                      - C++
                      - R
                      - ML

                      Essentially, most of the rest is only carried on by a 1 or 2 person team where if the team moves on to another project, the technology rots.

                      Consider the heavily promoted via MS blogs, Connect presentations, etc technologies of the last 4 years which are off the radar and appear to not exist, not be suported, not have any meaningful new features added:

                      - mobile development around a phone gap like javascript wrapped in a browser control
                      - F#
                      - VB.NET
                      - C#
                      - Plain old, not typescript, JavaScript
                      - Other languages in VS - ruby, python

                      Tools MS pushes follow the worn path of being pushed heavily for 3 years then dropped into non-existence. After 3 years, the 2-4 original developers move to another project and the tool is left to rot zombie with no real meaningful updates

                      C#/.net and C++ are the exceptions because MS has to have one unmananged win32 language and one managed win32 language.

                      WPF, the core UI technology for Windows desktops for over 10 years since 2008 has had near zero enhancements since 2010 other than 'better tooling' in VS.

                      Better tooling means the online help is better written and does not mean that WPF, for example, has had the investment by MS to be carried forward for another 10 years.

                      p.s., There's not official MS replacement for WPF for desktop UI and MS retires UI frameworks in shorter than 10 year timespans.

                      What's the choice if you need to develop a 100+ UI screen complex desktop application wich cannot run on the web in a browser due to scientific, real-time or financial reasons?

                      A desktop application with a browser control wrapping html/JavaScript won't work, too slow, too much memory used, won't work for high throughput real time , ....

                      Expect MS to kill off VB.net shortly.

                      BR supported this idea  · 
                    • 118 votes
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                        14 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » Languages - C#  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
                        BR commented  · 

                        MS already is moving its tools to JavaScript based UI like VS Code.

                        SQL Server Management Studio (win32) is being replaced by SQL Operations Studio (now called Azure Data Studio) https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sql/azure-data-studio/download?view=sql-server-2017

                        That's the path for desktop applications from MS is Javascript wrapped in an OS/UI widget layer instead of written in C#/WPF,

                        They've tried it on mobile with phonegap based tools with limited uptake and
                        with LightSwitch going from wind32 native to JavaScript.

                        Very messy and wrapped browser control applications of large size don't work well, take 2x the memory footprint of win32/c#, and are much more costly to maintain and develop.

                        Our core business application has hundreds of windows, some with real-time financial data, and are under Sarbanes Ox regulations. How can we make the case to re-write it all in Javascript in a browser control when the current c#/wpf system took a team of 20 devlopers serveral years to write?

                        Funny thing is when MS goes mostly JavaScript, there will be less reasons to use and pay for MS technologies.

                      • 192 votes
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                          1 comment  ·  Visual Studio IDE » IDE and Editor  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
                          BR commented  · 

                          Suggest moving the code graphing/structure tool outside of Visual Studio where it can be full featured and not limited by the legacy infrastructure provided by Visual Studio.

                          That fits with VS features used by a small minority of VS developers.

                        • 245 votes
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                            14 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » IDE and Editor  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
                            BR supported this idea  · 
                            BR commented  · 

                            A known issue for SQL Server Management Studio for over 10 years.
                            VS and other MS dev tools should default to US ASCII encoding unless you go to a tools-options and set a 'save new files as Unicode by default" setting. The setting should be turned to false on installation.

                            It's a BUG not a feature. Fix it.

                            This little bug costs the VS user base many thousands of man-hours over the last few years.

                            Productivity gains in VS are from fixing or removing things which waste developer time on a repeated basis.

                            Where I've been hit by this:

                            - VS project with multiple script files, script files get run against UAT environment by a command line tool from the 3rd party vendor which does not support unicode files

                            - VS project with SQL script files which get concatenated together to produce a large upgrade script. Concatenating ascii and unicode files together fails and the command line tool used to run the script will fail.

                            - VS project for web where some of the javascript files are in ascii and some in unicode, bundling fails, strings passed from a unicode javascript file to an ascii javascript fail to be matchable

                            - VS producing files which cannot be searched for a large system consisting of 15+ solutions and many thousands of source code files. Find all references fails to search in other solutions, inside config files, inside script files, inside strings, inside dynamically built and executed code, ....

                            If it was not big problem, the mixing of US ascii and unicode files would have been solved in 1995 or earlier - 20 years ago.

                            This is a good example of how MS ignores its customer base and focuses on feature-itis of adding only new features.

                            MS, the unicode only default file save works wonders when you are inside a single solution and do not use any tools other than VS and do not go cross platform.

                          • 2,308 votes
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                              33 comments  ·  Visual Studio IDE » Languages - C#  ·  Flag idea as inappropriate…  ·  Admin →
                              BR commented  · 

                              Must support OpenGL/Metal GPU programming. A directX only version does not help cross-platform scientific tools like our commercial product

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